But what if I LIKE Anime/Video-game tropes in my D&D?

[Clavis]

. And teenage girls are a market that D&D has yet to reach in substantial numbers. If 4E feels like it can replicate the stuff that they see/read in shows like SLAYERS! and Magic Knight Raerth then that's what will draw them.

In my experience, the reason teenage girls don't generally play D&D has nothing to do with it not replicating their expected fantasy tropes. The reason teenage girls don't play D&D is that they generally think gamers are smelly, obnoxious, sexist geeks, and any girl that associates with them will become a social outcast. NOTHING WOTC can do as far as changing the game rules will EVER change that at this point. Add all the bug-eyed ninjas with ultra-mega-super power-dragon-kicks that you want. The overwhelming majority of teenage girls still won't play.

It has nothing to do with girls not liking Western-style fantasy either. There is a whole genre of fantasy romance novels, which are essentially soft porn with elves and wizards. Women LOVE fantasy. They hate gamers.

When gamers start working out, learn to dress well, and acquire reputations as good lays, more women will start gaming. When DMs stop running games where all the female characters are sluts, ugly comic relief, or constant rape victims, more woman will game. If gamers generally looked like Vin Deisel, women would be begging to get in on games.

The rules aren't the problem. We're the problem.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

I'm 30... my first character was a red box elf about 24 years ago when my brother's friend taught us to sort of play one day. I'm personally overall excited with what I see, particularly the focus on kinetic combats. The whole full attack trade of 3rd edition rubbed me the wrong way, as did the weak rules of 1st/2nd edition. I like energy bolts that knock people around and fireballs that burn through floors, I want to kick a crate at someone and trip them, I want people crashing through walls, out windows, and pummeling each other all the way down. I'll take Shadow of the Colossus any day over whaling on a gargantuan sized blob of HP. Prince of Persia acrobatic rogues? Oh hell yes.

What would truly rock is if they ditched weapon type based damage entirely and just gave characters a flat out damage rating. Wanna describe your attack as a sword thrust? Go nuts. Wanna punch someone with the pomel and kick them in the jewels? They all deal the same, so feel free to spice things up. There isnt enough incentive to do the things you see in movies by the rules... just hitting them with your biggest + weapon is almost always the answer.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

In my experience, the reason teenage girls don't generally play D&D has nothing to do with it not replicating their expected fantasy tropes. The reason teenage girls don't play D&D is that they generally think gamers are smelly, obnoxious, sexist geeks, and any girl that associates with them will become a social outcast. NOTHING WOTC can do as far as changing the game rules will EVER change that at this point.

It has nothing to do with girls not liking Western-style fantasy either. There is a whole genre of fantasy romance novels, which are essentially soft porn with elves and wizards. Women LOVE fantasy. They hate gamers.

Yikes! Point taken though...

gamers start working out, learn to dress well, and acquire reputations as good lays, more women will start gaming. When DMs stop running games where all the female characters are sluts, ugly comic relief, or constant rape victims, more woman will game. If gamers generally looked like Vin Deisel, women would be begging to get in on games.

Damn D00d, who are you hanging out with?

Yeah I tend to try to find relatively normal people to game with as well. I dont think that the scorn for the unwashed ubernerd is a gender thing. As for portrayal of women in games I havent run into those sterotypes since I was 14-15 years old. Most of my DM's tend to portray their female characters as people first.

rules aren't the problem. We're the problem.

No, Those other cats you mentioned might be the problem. Not me

 

[EditorBFG]

When I wanted to play anime (which I enjoyed doing) I grabbed my Exalted books and had a blast.

Not for nothin', but while I love Exalted's setting and unique atmosphere, to my mind the system itself did not create an anime feel (nor did it service its own fluff). This failure came down to one thing: combat takes forever. A single round goes on for days. The dice mechanics create an simplistic arms race and anyone who looks at two characters on paper can know within 3 seconds who will win in a fight. Whereas in anime-- as in most good fantasy fiction, no matter the medium-- combat is fast-paced, and there is a sense that important things are always happening.

So to my mind, much of Exalted is the opposite of anime. It took months and months of play to figure all this out, but in the groups I played with there was a clear consensus. WoD 2.0 fixed a lot of the White Wolf house system, but sadly most of the changes were not ported over to the new Exalted.

If 4E can add that anime sense of climactic events and unique character abilities to the d20 system without slowing down to Exalted's plodding pace, it'll be welcome whether I am running an anime-influenced game or not. If I feel like I am playing Final Fantasy (with characters standing in a line politely taking turns to engage each other), then I'll come back to 3.5.

 

[Hella_Tellah]

I am, you spoony bard!

Hey, that's my line!

I'm in the same boat as the OP. I'll be even more controversial: I don't even like fantasy novels, and I've tried to ford my way through Jordan, Howard, Greenwood, and a host of others. I just can't get past the torturous world-building verbiage. "One thousand years ago, the dark god Yorgfiblius forged an orb of pure hatred to contest the reign of the god of light, Kiblablyoot. It is written that one mighty mortal will wield the sword Amphublicrupst against the demonic hordes of Yorgfiblius and blah blah blah..."

I'm 23, and apart from the Middle Earth books, I've hardly read any fantasy. I have, however, played nearly every RPG and adventure game produced by Square and Enix, and those are really the fantasy styles I'm most interested in. I don't know that 4th Edition is moving any closer to that, but I'd be pleased if it did, and I'd congratulate Wizards on the quality of their market research. If the game is going to grow, it has to reach out to more people my age and younger, and they could do worse than to incorporate the parts of console and computer RPGs that make them great.

 

[Raven Crowking]

I noticed you didn't answer his question as to the significant depth in REH's stories.

Most of REH's stories contain elements of civilization vs. barbarism, with the idea that excessive civilization is harmful to the full appreciation of human life. There is a lot of "we are just the most recent inhabitants on a world long ruled by forces malign" that was shared by REH's close correspondent & admirer, H.P. Lovecraft. There is also, however, a major theme involving the futility of life, the melancholy notion that our triumphs only stave off the inevitable, and this is probably the most important theme in Howard's work. Another common theme is the individual who believes that he acts for good, but fails to understand his own essential nature.

In his own time, REH was accused of writing about characters who failed to become fully adult. Many modern critics, reading REH with perhaps a bit more objectivity, have discovered instead that REH tends to write about people who are old before their time. Certainly, 90% of his poetry is about this sense of age and futility. It is not surprising that he committed suicide.

RC

 

[IanB]

As for portrayal of women in games I havent run into those sterotypes since I was 14-15 years old. Most of my DM's tend to portray their female characters as people first.

I see these portrayal issues, not in my own games, but in published stuff. Not WotC so much, but Paizo definitely, particularly in the Savage Tide AP - multiple female characters that seemingly are supposed to be competent get kidnapped and imprisoned in highly sexualized situations - and some of the articles (the rape demons in James Jacobs' Malcanthet writeup come to mind.)

 

[Raven Crowking]

don't deny yourself Howard or Leiber. Or Vance, or Eddison, or Anderson, or Merrit, or Bellairs, or Wagner for that matter. Go down to the local library the next time you have a two hour plus flight coming up and check out "Conan the ...." Whatever it's called, as long as it's Howard.

Ahem.

Look at your user title.

Can you think of any classic fantasy author you might have left out? Someone who might Peake a reader's interest, let us say?

(BTW, for the record, I don't see a lot of anime influence in what I am reading of 4e, though I do see video game influence, for good or ill.)

RC

 

[Incenjucar]

I am by no means a 4E booster, but the "anime / manga / video game" feel of 4E isnt one of the reasons why.

Someone further upthread did a nice job of backhanding those of us who actually like anime by implying that only children enjoy anime and mature adults look for something better. I can 't properly respond to that because I'd get booted from ENworld. But I will say as someone who has been watching anime for over 20 years that that declaration is pretty obnoxious not to mention wrong.

If this in reference to my post, I should note that Teen Titans is one of my favorite shows of all time, and I want to have S-Cry-ed's angry punching babies.

Being aware of what others find irritating does not imply having similar feelings.

Shonen IS for kids. It's what the word MEANS.

But being mature is about not fearing seeming childish when it suits you.

 

[Dr. Prunesquallor]

Ahem.

Look at your user title.

Touché, good sir. Touché