But...why not GURPS Munchkin?

[rounser]

Isn't that essentially the exact same joke Hackmaster makes?

I'm another fan of Hackmaster's style, so if what you say is true then Munchkin should also appeal to me. An extremely superficial examination of Munchkin (i.e. looking at the 4 cards on the website) seems to reveal quite a different style of parody than Hackmaster, and one which at first blush I have little interest in.

Hackmaster has a knowing reverence for it's sources and D&D absurdity in general, so while it unashamedly parodies D&D and it's players it also respects them, and doesn't bag out D&D or the people who play it overtly. Can the same be said for Munchkin? The name of the game itself suggests otherwise.

I think there are further hints as to different focus in that Munchkin is a beer-n-pretzels game, whereas Hackmaster is designed for long term campaign play. To me, the name "Hackmaster" suggests revelling in D&D cliche, whereas "Munchkin" suggests something else altogether.

 

[Doc_Klueless]

Steve Jackson's ego is too big for his own good. ... he can either get on board or get left behind.

People have been saying this for years. He hasn't been left behind yet. Still scores consistantly in the top 5 RPGs. GURPS is going nowhere except to continue as a very successful RPG.

Myself, I fear the d20 glut (I like d20 very much). If I see another start up company pumping out yet another d20 fantasy suppliment, I might just throw up.

:::shrug:::

Of course, I should say, before I get pounced on, that this is all in my own opinion and doesn't reflect that of others.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Hello!



Isn't that essentially the exact same joke Hackmaster makes? You don't seem to have a problem with that

Yes, but note that I emphasized that it needs to be funny. This doesn't seem funny, but we don't know for sure yet. HM is done out of love for the game, even if it does skewer it. We know that SJG doesn't have that same love for D&D.

 

[The Traveler]

Again, Colonel, Munchkin is John Kovalic's baby. You know, the guy who writes Dork Tower.

If you don't trust his motives, then why does his work get published monthly in Dragon?

 

[rounser]

If you don't trust his motives, then why does his work get published monthly in Dragon?

Written by Steve Jackson Illustrated by John Kovalic

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Note that I didn't mention anything about Kovalic. I don't have any suspicions about his motives. I don't think his stuff is funny, but that's just me. What I'm getting at is that SJG's first foray into the realm of d20 equates d20 with munchkin, in the title at least. It's along the same lines as John Wick's d20 adventure being called "What's That Smell?" with the d20 logo directly beneath it. It's a subtle slap at the game and its players. Or so it seems. It's too much of a coincidence for it not to be.

Look, I care about this a lot less than it may seem. I'm just pointing out something that I felt - mildly - was unfair on the part of SJG. That's all.

 

[The Traveler]

Yes, but the Munchkin concept, as well as the illustrations for the card game were generally Kovalic's. The card game and now the d20 supplement are inspired by Dork Tower and the Unspeakable Oaf.

Kovalic's not a game designer, so Jackson and Hackard are writing the actual rulebook.

Hackard, you'll note, is a member of the Kargatane, and thus among the freelancers that are on the Ravenloft d20 project.

These are hardly people hostile to d20 or WotC.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

OK, set aside who wrote or illustrated it. As with Wick's module, it may actually be a quality product, but the point is that they're taking a swipe at the game and its players while making money off both. Regardless of the contents and its quality, they're potshotting. It seems clear to me that's what is being done. Otherwise, why not make the first SJG d20 related release be, I don't know, a conversion of OGRE?

 

[The Traveler]

Possibly because SJG doesn't really intend to have a full d20 line, and is only doing this book because it fits the milieu of Munchkin and appeals to Munchkin's core audience?

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Which really supports the points rounser and I were both trying to make.