But...why not GURPS Munchkin?

[The Traveler]

My point was largely that Munchkin was a pre-existing line due to the cardgame, and it's entirely likely that market research indicated that Munchkin's fanbase would simply be more receptive to a d20 release than a GURPS release.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Maybe so, but I believe there is more to it than that. Out of everything it couldhave been, it was something called "munchkin"? It's just not a coincidence, in my opinion. It's a swipe at d20 and its players. The way I see it, it better be both funny and well-written, like HackMaster, or I may be less inclined to buy SJG books.

 

[rounser]

Munchkin was a pre-existing line due to the cardgame,

The credits I noted were for the card game. According to the website, SJ designed/wrote that too, whereas Kovalic is only noted as illustrator.

 

[trancejeremy]

My point was largely that Munchkin was a pre-existing line due to the cardgame, and it's entirely likely that market research indicated that Munchkin's fanbase would simply be more receptive to a d20 release than a GURPS release.

I doubt that a GURPs release was ever contemplated. I think it's just meant as a joke to make fun of d20.

 

[Tratyn Runewind]

Hi again!

This all looks pretty straightforward to me. Munchkinism as a play style tends to be associated, in the minds of experienced RPG players, with young, novice RPG players. This links it inextricably with D&D, the game so many of us started out with when WE were young, novice RPG players. And with the current D&D ruleset foundation open to public use under the OGL, it seems only natural to choose it for a game that has fun with the conventions of munchkin-style play. This hardly seems like some sinister plot to associate poor innocent D&D with "evil munchkinism", or like a subtle Swiftian swipe at the things Jackson doesn't like about D&D (which, if I recall correctly, have little to do with the munchkin play style itself).

Posted by ColonelHardisson
The way I see it, it better be both funny and well-written, like HackMaster, or I may be less inclined to buy SJG books.

This seems entirely sensible. I always want game companies I like to put out good product, especially if they are competing with something as impressive as Hackmaster, and when they fail it always makes me take a second look at their future products I might be considering. d20 Munchkin would have to be very bad indeed, though, to lower my opinion of SJG as much as GURPS Supers or Authentic Thaumaturgy did. From the sound of some of these posts, some folk here seem to be expecting a blatantly cynical cashing in on the "d20 fad", dripping with ill-concealed disdain for dim-bulb fanboys with gaming $$$ burning holes in their pockets and too clueless to realize they're being mocked by their betters, those who have moved on from D&D. From what I've seen of SJG's other munchkin-themed products, though, I doubt that will be the case.

Posted by trancejeremy:
I doubt that a GURPs release was ever contemplated.

As do I. GURPS goes into a lot of detail for the sake of realism. Who would put up with such detail in a comedy game steeped in the glorious unrealism of the munchkin play style? Even if Munchkin were not being done in d20, I doubt it would be done in something as imposing as the full-blown GURPS ruleset. It just might, though, be done in the lighter-weight new "Powered by GURPS" thing they're starting to use at SJG.

 

[Ron]

I believe that the Colonel is being too defensively. There isn't anything like a munchkin rules set. Munchkin is about players, you will probably find them playing any game. However, SJ has a point in the fact that most munchkins I have know would play D&D before anything else. The reasons? I have a feeling that this is because D&D characters are much more powerful than common people in the realms (less in third edition), which I have noticed to have a strong appeal in munchkin players.

 

[rounser]

There isn't anything like a munchkin rules set.

Well said.

Anyone for Rifts?

 

[ColonelHardisson]

I believe that the Colonel is being too defensively. There isn't anything like a munchkin rules set. Munchkin is about players, you will probably find them playing any game. However, SJ has a point in the fact that most munchkins I have know would play D&D before anything else. The reasons? I have a feeling that this is because D&D characters are much more powerful than common people in the realms (less in third edition), which I have noticed to have a strong appeal in munchkin players.

So...it's OK to stereotype all of us, then? SJG knows exactly what they're doing. Like I said, they could have led off with any other d20 product. John Wick also played the same joke with "What's That Smell?" It's basically these guys "rebelling against the Empire" of d20. Going after a corporate entity is one thing; making people who buy the product of that entity the butt of a joke is another.

I know I seem very defensive about this. I'm actually a lot less concerned about it than I seem. I'm just quibbling a bit, because jokes like these are tired and pointless. "Oh, ha ha - d20 is for munchkins. Glad you pointed that out" or "See? 'What's That Smell?' is directly above the d20 logo. Oh the hilarity!" Basically, game designers should stick with game designing, not comedy. They generally stink at it, and their attempts at satire are about as subtle as a turd in a punch-bowl. The only ones to have shown any propensity for humor have been Kenzer with HackMaster.

 

[Psion]

I'm just quibbling a bit, because jokes like these are tired and pointless. "Oh, ha ha - d20 is for munchkins. Glad you pointed that out" or "See? 'What's That Smell?' is directly above the d20 logo. Oh the hilarity!" Basically, game designers should stick with game designing, not comedy. They generally stink at it, and their attempts at satire are about as subtle as a turd in a punch-bowl.

Hear, hear!

 

[JDeMobray]

Basically, game designers should stick with game designing, not comedy.

But we're talking about SJG and Steve Jackson, so shouldn't they stick to something that they're good at?