Butchering Middle Earth

[yell0w_lantern]

Hi there, everyone.

I'm in the process of ripping the guts out of our familiar and beloved Lord Of The Rings storyline and rebuilding it to fit my needs (much like what that Peter Jackson guy did to it). Anyway, I've been toying with doing a 'what if' type scenario - what if the Blue Wizards (or just one of them) didn't just pass into the East and disappear but instead set about trying to forge a society in the [far] East which would also be opposed to Sauron. I considered making them humans and using the Oriental Adventures rules for all the classes, at least until I glanced through my Kalamar Player's Guide. Hobgoblins! Basically, the Rokugan setting with hobgoblins - you know, major clans battling the Shadowlands and all that stuff.

What I was hoping to get from this thread are some suggestions for how the hobgoblins came to be. I kind of want them to be either the result of cross-breeding from an earlier age of ME or the result of the Blue Wizard's tampering or something.
Anyone? Anyone?
Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?

Oh, and can someone direct me to a full map of the continent - something detailing lands further East than Mordor. I saw one a couple years ago on some guy's site which showed a couple islands and such (I think he added Amazons and a more Africa-based culture or two to his campaign).

Thanks for the help.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

I don't know if it'll help, but take a look at the link in my sig.

 

[Eosin the Red]

I thought the swarthy men came from the east? But they were fleeing something, weren't they?

 

[Jeph]

The way I think of Orcs in middle-earth is . . .

The standard Northerner orcs, you know, Sauron's lackeys, are Goblins, as per the MM.

The Isengarders, or Uruk-Hai, are Bugbears. Bigger, meaner, badder.

And any other orc races . . . they're just Orcs.

 

[fusangite]

It sounds like you're trying to create the Lemuria to Numenor's Atlantis. This seems less violent than many possible options but I still have to ask: Why? Why would someone try to set a game in Tolkien's Middle Earth? And a D&D game at that!?

Tolkien's concept of magic is absolutely antithetical to D&D magic and would require a complete stem to stern overhaul. Also, why would you want your campaign's story to exist in the shadow of a bigger, greater story that it could never hope to match?

Sorry to sound so annoyed but I still have yet to hear a really solid justification (a) for RPing in Tolkien's world and (b) for using D&D for this purpose.

That said, I think your idea of a 4th age adventure based around the Blue Wizards in the East is probably the best way to go, followed by a 1E adventure in Middle Earth (as opposed to Beleriand) before the War of the Wrath.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Sorry to sound so annoyed but I still have yet to hear a really solid justification (a) for RPing in Tolkien's world and (b) for using D&D for this purpose.

(a) No one needs to justify to anyone why they want to game in any setting.

(b) Because many people who play D&D like Lord of the Rings.

 

[Turjan]

A friend of mine has an 8 years ongoing campaign in Middle Earth. They started with AD&D and switched to 3E some time ago. Therefore, I don't think this concept is rare .

 

[ColonelHardisson]

By the way, for those who are interested, the link in my sig is a site made up of material written by a number of different people. It doesn't try to provide the definitive way to game in Middle Earth. Instead, it is a repository of material which can be mixed and matched to suit anyone's taste. We also encourage people to submit their own material also.

Much of this material has been hashed out for probably pushing 2 years now. Every aspect of using d20 and/or D&D has been heavily discussed on these boards since Eric's days.

When it comes to the magic, there are huge variances in interpretations. Some seem to think Middle Earth was nearly bereft of magic, while others see a more high-powered approach. The matter is also addressed on the site in different ways. Decipher's very fine Lord of the Rings roleplaying game has a very interesting magic system, one that I would like to see converted for use in d20 also. It's also interesting to note that many of the spells in Decipher's game have d20 counterparts. Matter of fact, Decipher's game strongly resembles d20 all around. I encourage those who are interested to check it out. If nothing else, try to read the section on magic, which includes some very well-written and carefully researched essays on magic use in Middle Earth. Middle Earth has a lot more magic than many give it credit for.

 

[Sir Hawkeye]

For me:

(a) because I really like Middle-Earth, and all kind of wacky stuff can happen after the defeat of Sauron.

(b) Strangely enough, the destruction of the One Ring creates a magical power vacuum, breaking the seal between Middle-Earth and the D&D cosmology. That little theory solves all kinds of problems with magic.

 

[fusangite]

Well, I've looked at the materials to which you've linked and I've come to the conclusion that in answer to my question,
(a) because of a genuine love for Tolkien's world, superseding any desire to work in a great man and a great story's shadow
(b) either willful misinterpretation or obtuse misunderstanding of the world they love so much

Kinetic magic comes from the Valar and the Maiar, period. The only magical capabilities of elves are non-kinetic. The high-magic structure of D&D is completely incompatible with this.

Anyway, I'll stop being a killjob now and get off this thread.