OD&D [BX/OSE] Encounter Challenge Level?

[Marc_C]

If I have 4 characters (fighter 4, cleric 4, m-u 4 and thief 6) how do I determine if an encounter will be difficult, moderate or easy for them?

EDIT: I got the info I was looking for. I'm done with this thread. Thanks!

 

[commandercrud]

In BX? You don't.

 

[NotAYakk]

In old D&D monster difficulty was measured in HD and stars. 8* would be an 8 HD monster which has extra nasty ability of some kind. IIRC, there was also 8**.

Random encounter tables for a dungeon generally had 1 HD on the 1st floor, 2 HD monsters on the 2nd, etc, with some variation. Such monsters would also have a # appearing entry (often for lower-HD monsters on higher level floors).

PCs where expected to calibrate their own risk tolerance; the slope of difficulty of the dungeon would give players information about if they are ready to head down to a lower level. If the dungeon proved too challenging, you would get more hirelings or approach it more carefully.

Players where expected to learn how cautious they should be (in general) by having PCs die. Making low level PCs quick to generate was part of this.

Wilderness encounter tables had a higher variation, with a larger # appearing, but because sight lines in the wilderness tend to be larger, short-range surprise was rare. And PCs able to boot it could survive if they "ran into" a warband of 400 orcs.

If a party runs into a warband of 400 orcs, they where expected to deconstruct the problem rather than fight it head on.

The XP-for-GP rule meant that the general rule when running into hostile creatures is "do they have treasure we want", not "are they a worthy foe to fight".

But, the closest thing to CR was usually counting HD.

 

[zarionofarabel]

If I have 4 characters (fighter 4, cleric 4, m-u 4 and thief 6) how do I determine if an encounter will be difficult, moderate or easy for them?

You roll on the chart of random monsters. Then the group fights said monster(s). If all the PCs die, the encounter was too hard!

 

[Marc_C]

In old D&D monster difficulty was measured in HD and stars. 8* would be an 8 HD monster which has extra nasty ability of some kind. IIRC, there was also 8**.

Random encounter tables for a dungeon generally had 1 HD on the 1st floor, 2 HD monsters on the 2nd, etc, with some variation. Such monsters would also have a # appearing entry.

PCs where expected to calibrate their own risk tolerance; the slope of difficulty of the dungeon would give players information about if they are ready to head down to a lower level. If the dungeon proved too challenging, you would get more hirelings or approach it more carefully.

Players where expected to learn how cautious they should be (in general) by having PCs die. Making low level PCs quick to generate was part of this.

Wilderness encounter tables had a higher variation, with a larger # appearing, but because sight lines in the wilderness tend to be larger, short-range surprise was rare. And PCs able to boot it could survive if they "ran into" a warband of 400 orcs.

If a party runs into a warband of 400 orcs, they where expected to deconstruct the problem rather than fight it head on.

The XP-for-GP rule meant that the general rule when running into hostile creatures is "do they have treasure we want", not "are they a worthy foe to fight".

But, the closest thing to CR was usually counting HD.

Very helpful ! I played B/X a very long time ago. Restarting soon.

I also wanted to correlate the module recommendations (X PCs of Y levels) with the level of PCs.

 

[Marc_C]

I got this very good answer on The Piazza old D&D forums:

"RobJN wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:38 amIt's basically a ratio of the PCs total levels to the total monster HD in the encounter.

Per the RC's "Balancing Encounters" optional rule (p. 101), which were found in the Mentzer Master Rules Set.
Total Party Level of 18

Multiplying TPL by the Challenge percent yields the following (rough!) numbers

Minor= >1-2 HD
Too Easy= 2-3 HD
Distraction= 4-5 HD
Good Fight=5-9 HD
Challenging= 9-13 HD
Major= 13-16 HD
Risky= 16-20 HD

(HD are adjusted, adding half the monster's HD to its total per asterisk; so a Thoul, with 3** HD would be calculated as 6 HD)

The RC defines encounters thus:

RC wrote:

• 1-10% Minor: Most random encounters should be of this level. Often minor encounters are used to warn a party of something worse ahead.
• 10-20% Too Easy: An encounter that is too easy is best ignored or played for humor. It is not a real challenge unless the party is weaponless or injured.
• 20-30% Distraction: This is a smaller encounter that will cost the party some hit points but should be easy to overcome. This level should be used when there are many encounters and the party has little chance to recover from previous ones.
• 30-50% Good Fight: This is the most common level of encounter and can make up half of an adventure. A good fight may also include tough random encounters.
• 50-70% Challenging: This encounter will challenge a party's might, but the party has the odds in its favor if the encounter is played well. If the ad- venture is short, three to five of these encounters may be used.
• 70-90% Major: This type of encounter is usually used as the main fight or climax of an adventure. If an adventure has little fighting, the DM may want to include one or two of these encounters.
• 90-110% Risky: The monsters are equal to the party and there is an even chance that either side may win. This encounter may require many of the party's resources, and some members may die. Risky encounters are sometimes used for the grand finale to a quest.

How you want to map those levels to "Easy," "Moderate," and "Difficult" depends on where you want to draw those lines."

 

[NotAYakk]

The fun part of the "adding up HD" system is that it works in 5e with only a bit of adjustment (well, you add up monster CRs instead of HD).

Spoiler

CR 1/8 = 0.4
CR 1/4 = 0.6
CR 1/2 = 0.8
CR 1 = 1.2
CR 2-4 = 2-4
CR 5-10 = 6-11 (bump at 5)
CR 11-20 = 13-31 (2 per level - could throw in a bump at 11)
CR 21-30 = 35-71 (4 per level... or was it 5?)

For PCs
L 1-4: 1-4
L 5-10: 6-11 (bump at 5)
L 11-20: 13-31 (2 per level)

The ratio becomes how dangerous the fight is. IIRC, deadly starts around 40% of PC total.

 

[transmission89]

If I have 4 characters (fighter 4, cleric 4, m-u 4 and thief 6) how do I determine if an encounter will be difficult, moderate or easy for them?

You don’t. You rethink your approach to creating adventures. The older editions had a different philosophy to new editions. The world is not balanced around the players. Create a ”natural“ environment and let the players figure the best approach. Fight head on (bad idea)/ find a way to fight with advantage/ negotiate/ sneak by to get the loot. Also note, if fighting, make use of the morale checks. If they decide to take on an orc den of 200+ orcs head on, then all power to them. Bring spare character sheets! Alternatively, sneak by, listen in on a conversation with a disaffected orc lieutenant and his minion, use that to gain a negotiating position. Create factional strife and as they are tearing each other apart, get the all powerful gem of macguffin and get it home to get that sweet xp

 

[Marc_C]

You don’t. You rethink your approach to creating adventures. The older editions had a different philosophy to new editions. The world is not balanced around the players. Create a ”natural“ environment and let the players figure the best approach. Fight head on (bad idea)/ find a way to fight with advantage/ negotiate/ sneak by to get the loot. Also note, if fighting, make use of the morale checks. If they decide to take on an orc den of 200+ orcs head on, then all power to them. Bring spare character sheets! Alternatively, sneak by, listen in on a conversation with a disaffected orc lieutenant and his minion, use that to gain a negotiating position. Create factional strife and as they are tearing each other apart, get the all powerful gem of macguffin and get it home to get that sweet xp

That is a play style that has nothing to do with the edition. It's called sandbox. You can do it with any RPG or any D&D edition. I was there in the early 80s and we played different types of campaigns. Some were sandbox, others were arc story style, some pure dungeon crawl hack & slash.

Also, "Run Away!" is always an option regardless of the edition. If players, in my campaigns, misjudge the challenge in front of of them, their PCs will die!

 

[ccs]

I always figured that a character should be able to handle 1HD worth of enemy per lv.
MU & Thieves with their puny d4s I counted as 1HD for every two of their lvs.
Every * a monster had I counted for about an extra 1/2HD each.

I still use that general 1HD per Lv assumption.