C&C: organizing 3e skills via the SIEGE system

[Gentlegamer]

I would ask why a PC fighter would want to become an exceptional weaponsmith? He's an adventurer, not a tradesman!

 

[Dragonhelm]

I would ask why a PC fighter would want to become an exceptional weaponsmith? He's an adventurer, not a tradesman!

Okay, perhaps not the best example.

Point is, how would C&C handle a character who places more emphasis on one skill than others?

 

[Gentlegamer]

Earlier in the thread I explained how I plan to handle "trained only" type skill, which is what I think you are asking about.

In brief, experience level is not added to a skill roll unless the character has "special training" which is up to the referee to determine. Without "special training" a character can improve his skill roll on an ad hoc basis by describing extra steps he has taken to improve the circumstances (sought out advice, used better tools, etc.)

This departs from the C&C standard that has experience level added to every skill roll that isn't in an area belonging to another class.

 

[Frostmarrow]

I thought the point of C&C was that there are no skills. I became seriously disillusioned by this.

Keep it up, though. :\

 

[Breakdaddy]

I thought the point of C&C was that there are no skills. I became seriously disillusioned by this.

Keep it up, though. :\

There ARENT any, you were right in the first place. These guys are just trying to get their 3.x players to relate to the SIEGE engine, as Akrasia clearly stated in his first post.

 

[Dorloran]

I've been working on a port of the SIEGE system, too, and wanted to cut down on the paperwork.

What about DC for a class skilll = 12 + CR of the adventure?

DC for non-class skill = 18 + CR of the adventure?

I'm not sure how/why CC uses 12 and 18, but you could go with 15 and 20, respectively, plus CR, too.

 

[Treebore]

I've been working on a port of the SIEGE system, too, and wanted to cut down on the paperwork.

What about DC for a class skilll = 12 + CR of the adventure?

DC for non-class skill = 18 + CR of the adventure?

I'm not sure how/why CC uses 12 and 18, but you could go with 15 and 20, respectively, plus CR, too.

Your exactly right, you can. I think they went by 12 and 18 because of the ability bonus they have (+3 versus +4 for an 18) and the difference of 6 between prime and non-prime work better on a 12 and 18 scale rather than a 10 to 15 scale. I've thought about using 10,15, 20, etc... but I felt it was better to keep the difference to make people realize they are NOT playing d20 3.5.

 

[driver8]

I dunno I still like the lack of detail that is C&C. If I had skills, they would be background skills, maybe "career" or craft skills to reflect stuff he did in non adventuring time., and which may enliven his adventuring life. But I wouldnt want to do a full blown skill set. Maybe just to make more concrete some of the vaguer elements that make up a PC. Like maybe an elf has an animal handling skill, a rogue from a big city has a fencing skill, etc..and the skills would be limited a a few perhaps 3 at creation.

Otherwise, I feel that it encroaches on the archetypal nature of the classes.

For instance, I wouldnt have a move silently skill. THose are the provence of sneaky classes. I wouldnt have a run or jump skill. The SIEGE system models this by having primes. A fighter with physical primes can do this better, a wizard with mental primes wont be.

 

[Akrasia]

I dunno I still like the lack of detail that is C&C. If I had skills, they would be background skills, maybe "career" or craft skills to reflect stuff he did in non adventuring time., and which may enliven his adventuring life. But I wouldnt want to do a full blown skill set. Maybe just to make more concrete some of the vaguer elements that make up a PC. Like maybe an elf has an animal handling skill, a rogue from a big city has a fencing skill, etc..and the skills would be limited a a few perhaps 3 at creation.

Otherwise, I feel that it encroaches on the archetypal nature of the classes.

For instance, I wouldnt have a move silently skill. THose are the provence of sneaky classes. I wouldnt have a run or jump skill. The SIEGE system models this by having primes. A fighter with physical primes can do this better, a wizard with mental primes wont be.

I don't understand what motivated this comment.

My proposal is NOT to introduce skills to C&C.

Rather, my purpose in translating 3e skills into primes it to help 3e players get a sense of how primes work (i.e. as broad 'bundles' of abilities).

I agree with you about the SIEGE method -- nothing you have said is contrary to the point of my initial post.

In short: I am NOT the use of 3e skills in C&C. That was not the purpose of my 'translation'!

:\

 

[Treebore]

The reason there are not skills in C&C as there are in 3E is that it is assumed that anyone can do most of the skills, especially skills (as they are classified in 3e) such as climb, jump, move silently, riding, etc...

IE the SIEGE engine is designed to allow any character to attempt anything a CK (DM) and player agree that a character can try. Based on your attributes, you'll be more or less likely to achieve/accomplish the task. So your natural ability will play a stronger part in your success at jumping, climbing, juggling, solving a riddle, tricking someone, convincing someone, etc....

Training can definitely have an effect on these kind of things as well. This training should only be allowed within the context of a specific class or set of classes. However, even this won't cover all things, so then a CK/DM can house rule some training rules to allow for others to learn and improve upon certain skills, if the CK is so inclined and the need is there for the style of their campaign.

The big thing about C&C is that it sets a simple base line on which you can run a game. You decide how much more complex it becomes by what rules you adopt as house rules to add to your particular game. From whatever other game you want to import them from, or from whatever inpiration hits you. TLG/C&C will never have complete books or other books with hundreds and thousands of other rules and ideas for you to add to your game, because they are already out there.

C&C is designed to easily alter rules from every version of D&D to use in C&C. From OD&D to 3E. Incluidng monsters. That is why the SIEGE engine was made to be so simple, and therefore versatile. You want simplicity, play C&C. You want it to be more complex? Add what you want from where you want to take it from. C&C gives you a basic gaming paltform. You build it into what you want from there. Or leave it as simple as it is. It is completely up to you.