[C&C] Will there be a revised Player's book?

[JoeGKushner]

I'm glad that TLG didn't raise up the price to include glossy paper(totally unnecessary), or full color art(again ok, but hardly necessary and I would rather pay less and get nice B&W artwork).

The only thing I think it needs is better proofreading and some layout changes, like changing the layout of the spell descriptions. Other than that I like it a lot. I prefer simpler layouts without all the watermark type things nd other stuff that made the 3.x PH hard for me to read at times.

It's a preference thing. It's probably one of the reasons that Palladium has been in business as long as they have been.

Having said that, there is a market for the other side of the scale as Conan has proven no?

 

[JoeGKushner]

The anti-Mongoose people on these boards are pretty ferocious... that is indeed what I'd read. I'm glad to learn otherwise.

Hey, half the time, I'm one of those guys.

In 3.0, there were... questionable things in many of their books.

When 3.5 first came out, they jumped onto the boat of claiming that they were compatible with the new edition with books like Sheloth and others and man did they suck hard. Very hard.

Mongoose Matt steps up. Is a man about it. Promises better results. I think part of this was due to some of John Cooper's brutal reviews of books like the Ultimate Monster Collection which got a 2 star rating.

Then we get Conan. With lots of editing errors.

So Mongoose Matt steps up. Is a man about it. This time actually does something about it outside of putting the book on sale for 50% off (not telling anyone that's buying it that it's full of gaming errors like Ultimate Arcane, Ultimate Monsters and others), and comes out with a new edition and some freebies for the fans.

Mongoose still has editing issues but don't seem to be as severe.

 

[MrFilthyIke]

Mongoose Matt steps up. Is a man about it.

And that's one reason I still like Mongoose. Matt.

Their stuff has gotten better.

 

[Mythmere1]

I haven't bought many Mongoose products (I don't buy many products at all - it's not a Mongoose thing), but I was hugely impressed by a thread in which MongooseMatt stated that they were withdrawing that monster book. Very impressed. He did mention that there were problems with it, too, not just a 50% price cut, IIRC.

The problems with the CCPHB are purely a matter of grammar, style, usage, etc.

The latest news is that the 2nd printing will not go out until Gencon - Davis made this comment to my C&C blog just this morning. Since the print copies will certainly sell out before then, TLG is planning to sell the first printing as a pdf file in the interim.

 

[Treebore]

I think that is a bad idea. Having your books dissappearing from the book shelves for several months is a bad idea. Most people never hear, or try to find out, the reasons behind it. They just assume it is a product in trouble and when it reappears stay away from it because they have already been "convinced" that the product is failing.

Again, that is a very bad idea. TLG needs to keep the momentum rolling, and that requires keeping your PH in print while all the supplemental stuff is coming out, because you never know where along the way you will pick up a new fan. Or lose one because they percieve lack of product availability as a failing of the game and company.


A very bad idea.

 

[JoeGKushner]

I haven't bought many Mongoose products (I don't buy many products at all - it's not a Mongoose thing), but I was hugely impressed by a thread in which MongooseMatt stated that they were withdrawing that monster book. Very impressed. He did mention that there were problems with it, too, not just a 50% price cut, IIRC.
.

Uh... if you went to the website and didn't check reviews then no, you had no idea that the books that were on sale for 50% off were filled with errors.

If you followed along in different threads that talked about it, you'd know, but if you were just looking along the site and saw the books, all you saw was a book at 1/2 price.

 

[MrFilthyIke]

The problems with the CCPHB are purely a matter of grammar, style, usage, etc.

I hear ya mythmere, i'm actually holding out because I have no gaming group to use it with anyway :\

 

[Mythmere1]

I think that is a bad idea. Having your books dissappearing from the book shelves for several months is a bad idea. Most people never hear, or try to find out, the reasons behind it. They just assume it is a product in trouble and when it reappears stay away from it because they have already been "convinced" that the product is failing.

Again, that is a very bad idea. TLG needs to keep the momentum rolling, and that requires keeping your PH in print while all the supplemental stuff is coming out, because you never know where along the way you will pick up a new fan. Or lose one because they percieve lack of product availability as a failing of the game and company.


A very bad idea.

I think it would be better if they could produce a revised PHB and get it into print - but it's no small task to put in the edits, check the edits (editing always creates new errors), do the layout and go to print. And I think it's very important to get it well-edited this time.

I see what you're saying, though. I'm just not sure it's possible. I've been marking up an extra copy of the PHB to send them, and it takes at least 30 minutes per page to clean up the writing. Davis has got a few grammatical quirks that show up everywhere (exuberant series of dependent clauses, and a lordly disdain for comma usage being the main ones).

 

[gideon_thorne]

Steve once mentioned to me that a reprint wouldnt be done till X number of copies have been sold. AFAIK they are sticking to that premise since the # sold hasn't reached the target number he mentioned.

Much of it had to do with the cost of printing and # of copies sold that would cover said cost before they could go to reprint.

I suspect, if the book could get done soon enough and that target number is reached soon enough, then the release date for the second printing would be proportionally sooner.

I think it would be better if they could produce a revised PHB and get it into print - but it's no small task to put in the edits, check the edits (editing always creates new errors), do the layout and go to print. And I think it's very important to get it well-edited this time.

I see what you're saying, though. I'm just not sure it's possible. I've been marking up an extra copy of the PHB to send them, and it takes at least 30 minutes per page to clean up the writing. Davis has got a few grammatical quirks that show up everywhere (exuberant series of dependent clauses, and a lordly disdain for comma usage being the main ones).

 

[Mythmere1]

Steve once mentioned to me that a reprint wouldnt be done till X number of copies have been sold. AFAIK they are sticking to that premise since the # sold hasn't reached the target number he mentioned.

Much of it had to do with the cost of printing and # of copies sold that would cover said cost before they could go to reprint.

I suspect, if the book could get done soon enough and that target number is reached soon enough, then the release date for the second printing would be proportionally sooner.

Possible - I'm sure you're in better communication with them - but the post Davis (or was it Steve?) made on my blog was pretty specific. Here's the text:

First though, I wanted to comment reagrding the second printing. We are going to wait until gen con for the second printing. So we are going to have to manage our short supplies and hand them over five months. Regardless of desire. We are doing this for several reasons but the most important is the editing and layout issues which keep arising.

As you know, the text is under revision and will be revised even more afterwards. Then Peter is going to help with layout issues (he has a degree in it).

In the meantime, to further spread the word, we are going to do a PDF version and are having a big meet and great with retailers at GAMA. That will be combined with wandering from place to place to do book signings. I have two scheduled at Hastings in Arkansas but will be moving further out to Dallas, Tulsa and Memphis. Sadly, the LGMs are just not moving as many of these books as are the book store chains (this is a flip flop from our past experiences.)