[C&C] Will there be a revised Player's book?

[Mythmere1]

This is not the case at all...Impressions handles the distributor sales and shipping for TLG and about 40 other companies so we're right in the thick of it.

The PHB is hard to find and sold out in stores because the distributors and retailers are not buying enough to meet demand. This is a constant problem with game companies (save the top 10)...The distributors do not buy enough and the retailers don't order more than 1 or 2 to keep on their shelves at a given time. These stores don't want to take chances because so many games have a hard time selling...but when a hit comes around, they are caught off guard, BUT STILL only order 1 or 2. It's weird.

Best,
Aldo

Wingnut, thank you, that's a very cool insight into the industry, which I know nothing about. So, (this is really just curiosity) - do other distributors buy from the main distributor?

Also, can you say what the sales look like? I can tell that C&C is a hit, as you say, but the internet's not a great source of information that's actually reliable.

 

[Wingnut]

No. Most retailers use 2 or 3 distributors that they spread purchases between, but even with this, the retailers are ULTRA conservative buying new product releases from companies that are not the top folks. On top of this, some of the distributors have systems that prevent product from getting to the stores...like Alliance (the biggest)...they only restock in 4 week cycles...so, if they sell out of something on the 2nd week of the cycle, they are out for 2...which then they try their other distributors (where some order weekly). It is really hard for small press. You as consumers MUST tell retailers when you want them to preorder something or they'll just spot order 1 or 2.

About the numbers, I cannot quote numbers for TLG or any of my clients. I can tell you that C&C is the best non-licensed RPG (D20 or not) I've sold in an extremely long time. I can also say that if my company sells 500 copies of any RPG these days, we're lucky.

Best,
Aldo

Wingnut, thank you, that's a very cool insight into the industry, which I know nothing about. So, (this is really just curiosity) - do other distributors buy from the main distributor?

Also, can you say what the sales look like? I can tell that C&C is a hit, as you say, but the internet's not a great source of information that's actually reliable.

 

[Acid_crash]

Just my .03 worth:

When I flipped through a copy of C&C my enthusiasm went from 'I gotta get this' to 'this is the crappiest layout I've ever seen in my entire life' and decided to not buy it because of how horrible the layout is. Just my opinion, but I've seen rpg books from twenty years ago have way superior layouts than this book (even Marvel Super Heroes had a better layout).

 

[Wasgo]

Just my .03 worth:

When I flipped through a copy of C&C my enthusiasm went from 'I gotta get this' to 'this is the crappiest layout I've ever seen in my entire life' and decided to not buy it because of how horrible the layout is. Just my opinion, but I've seen rpg books from twenty years ago have way superior layouts than this book (even Marvel Super Heroes had a better layout).

Ah well, you're truly missing out. Hopefully you'll pick up the second printing. It only took 20 minutes for me to abandon D20 in favour of C&C. Now begins the process of converting, made easier by my 1st edition AD&D books.

 

[cleaverthepit]

Acid Crash - its like a bad memory

well, we hope you will give the second printing a chance. Peter Bradley (who does have a master's in layout/design) has been helping us much more these days (beyond artwork).

If you take a look at any of our older stuff and then this ( CZLAYOUT ) you'll see the direction things are going.

As a small company with limited resources and time, we do what we can when we can. C&C is quickly moving us into a much better realm such that we can start the process of better layout/edits/design etc.

This coming year should witness the final turn-around for TLG. Our 5 year plan has worked better than expected in some areas, not so in others, but we are on the mark now. The only thing now is that we might start 'heating' up too quickly. So we have to be careful as a company.

Again, sorry forthe disapointment. We do endevour to improve our product line with each quarter, and generally have succeeded as we do listten to consumers.

Isn't Aldo great!

davis

 

[Treebore]

Just for the record, mileage definitely varies. I have seen, bought, and played a wide variety of RPG's over the past 20 years, and I didn't find C&C anywhere close to as bad as Acid Crash's opinion. Room for improvement? Definitely. So bad as to be unusable or a reason not to try it out? Definitely not.

The more I read through this book the more I like it. Rules definitely need to be addressed fully in one section, not a bit here and a bit there. That was a major problem with 3.0 that was cleaned up a lot in 3.5.

My biggest problem with C&C is that the PH was touted as being a game system in one book. It isn't. It can be "if" I use monsters and rules from other sources, but that is not how C&C was marketed. I've been able to get over that mostly because I never believed those claims to begin with, otherwise you wouldn't have been advertising a monster book and Castle Keepers book at the same time.

Yes, there are a fair number of spelling and wording problems, but nothing my pen and pencil haven't been able to handle for me. Still very annoying with todays spelling and grammar checking tools. None of it kept me from understanding the rules, so that was good.

As for the art, I like black and white art, so I easily like this "greyscale" art. It is definitely a lot better then a lot of art I have seen in other books.


3E is a game that gives me a big headache to DM. That is why I am interested in C&C, it is a nice simple system, far simpler than "core" 3E. It is a system that I can make as complex as want and not worry about it being made worse with a new book, whether about classes, races, or environments, all of which add spells, PrC's and other things that cause me to be the "bad" dm because I don't allow them, or give me 500 additional game impacting rules variations to worry about.

I'll go with C&C in the future when I DM. If I have to do anything with 3E I'll be happy to be a player and let some other DM get the brain strain. So my current 3E game is the last 3E game I ever intend on DMing.

 

[Breakdaddy]

I'll go with C&C in the future when I DM. If I have to do anything with 3E I'll be happy to be a player and let some other DM get the brain strain. So my current 3E game is the last 3E game I ever intend on DMing.

Agreed. I also feel like Acid Crash is definitely missing out as well. Layout is an issue, but has nothing at all to do with the mechanics of the game, which imo, are excellent. Well, here is to hoping you decide to give the 2nd print run a try.

 

[MrFilthyIke]

I am interested in the revised C&C, but would not abandon 3e ever in favor of it. If I want "old skool" I'll use my basic and "o" D&D stuff for a campaign. I am interested in C&C for inspiration though.

 

[Bregh]

I am rapidly leaning towards a new C&C campaign in favour of both my current OAD&D campaign (ongoing since 1994, will be a straight-over conversion) and my latest d20 campaign, but I won't be abandoning my OD&D campaign (too much fun, and such a breeze to run/play: accept no substitutes ).

The big appeal for me in C&C, aside from its sweet resolution mechanic (slicker than deer guts on linolium, IMO) is the ease of conversion for gaming material from both OAD&D and d20/3rd edition. My Necromancer Games modules can be "converted" during play, as can my OAD&D modules, with just an eyeball reference to a handful of stats. For me, that is a dream come true. (It goes without saying that homebrew modules benefit from this, as well, no matter what edition I wrote them for). For that convenience alone, and for C&C's ability to accomplish it, I can hardly curb my enthusiasm for the new system.

Issues re: layout, typos? Not for me. Fer cryin out loud, Classic OD&D (the little booklets) are the source for my main (and most favourite, atm, campaign), so obviously these issues for me are of little consequence. I can see the point that others may be making, but in the main, I feel some complaints have been exaggerated. My daily newspaper is far, far worse, but, hey, mileages vary.

 

[Akrasia]

Just my .03 worth:

When I flipped through a copy of C&C my enthusiasm went from 'I gotta get this' to 'this is the crappiest layout I've ever seen in my entire life' and decided to not buy it because of how horrible the layout is. Just my opinion, but I've seen rpg books from twenty years ago have way superior layouts than this book (even Marvel Super Heroes had a better layout).

I have been playing RPGs for 26 years now, and to say that the C&C PHB has the 'crappiest layout' of any RPG is just ridiculous. In fact, in contrast to the 'standard' quality of RPGs over the past 26 years, the C&C PHB is about 'average' (miles better than the old FGU games like C&S and Space Opera, let alone countless other games).

Yes the layout and editing could be better. OTOH the art is excellent, the book is very sturdy, and the rules work very well.

Pity that some people value style over substance to this extent. :\