[CAdv] Rapid Spell And Swift Spells

[Pinotage]

I'm a little unclear as to how this feat works. Can a druid spontaneously casting a Summon Nature's Ally IV spell, for example, with this feat cast it as a standard action and burn a 5th level spell slot? Presumably if you prepare a Summon Nature's Ally spell with this feat, you use a higher level spell slot but it's still a Standard Action.

Another question on Swift Spells. What happens if you put a swift spell into a scroll or wand?

Pinotage

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Another question on Swift Spells. What happens if you put a swift spell into a scroll or wand?

Pinotage

I'd say that they can be activated as a swift action. Such a scroll probably has a very small activation part, only a single word or so.

 

[Thanee]

Activating a magic item is a standard action unless the item description indicates otherwise. However, the casting time of a spell is the time required to activate the same power in an item, regardless of the type of magic item, unless the item description specifically states otherwise.

As for the Druid... I don't think that works, since using metamagic on spontaneous spells increases the casting time to a full-round action (same problem as with the Sorcerer and Quicken Spell).

EDIT: The feat description also says this (granted, it's only really implied)... you can use it spontaneously, IF (and this should be read as "and only if") the original casting time is GREATER than one full round, therefore this doesn't apply to summon spells.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Hypersmurf]

However, the casting time of a spell is the time required to activate the same power in an item, regardless of the type of magic item, unless the item description specifically states otherwise.

Note that for wands, the item description does state otherwise:
Wands use the spell trigger activation method, so casting a spell from a wand is usually a standard action that doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity. (If the spell being cast, however, has a longer casting time than 1 action, it takes that long to cast the spell from a wand.)

A spell with a casting time of a swift action doesn't have a longer casting time than 1 action, therefore it takes a standard action to activate from a wand.

The item description for scrolls doesn't state otherwise, therefore a scroll of a spell with a casting time of a swift action requires a swift action to activate.

-Hyp.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Note that for wands, the item description does state otherwise:
Wands use the spell trigger activation method, so casting a spell from a wand is usually a standard action that doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity. (If the spell being cast, however, has a longer casting time than 1 action, it takes that long to cast the spell from a wand.)

A spell with a casting time of a swift action doesn't have a longer casting time than 1 action, therefore it takes a standard action to activate from a wand.

The item description for scrolls doesn't state otherwise, therefore a scroll of a spell with a casting time of a swift action requires a swift action to activate.

-Hyp.

This just screams for rule zero.

 

[Gez]

One will notice that the rule for scrolls was written before swift and immediate spells were theorized, so of course, the prospect of a spell taking a shorter casting time was not addressed, since none of the spells have a shorter casting time.

The only exceptions to the above statement was for feather fall, which is a swift action when cast during your round, and quickened spells. Since foraging within your handbag to reach to a scroll kinda defeats the purpose of quickening spells, and since scrolls and other magic items are very seldom written with a metamagifed version of the spells, this could be considered as an oversight.

*Watches as Hypersmurf pulls his hair and rant and moan about this logic.*

 

[Pinotage]

Ok, so the consensus is that Rapid Spell can only reduce the casting time of spells with a 1 round casting time if they're prepared. So if the druid wants to cast a Summon spell as a standard action, he needs to prepare it in a spell slot one level higher.

With regard to the swift spells, while the core rules state wands take a standard action to activate, as Gez has stated, that was written before swift actions were introduced. Hmm, I guess as KaeYoss points out, I'll have to ask the DM, unless the miniatures handbook can shed some light on the matter.

Pinotage

 

[Pinotage]

Miniatures handbook states that spell completion, spell trigger or potions that implement swift actions still take a standard action to activate. Should've checked that in the first place!

Thanks all!

Pinotage

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Miniatures handbook states that spell completion, spell trigger or potions that implement swift actions still take a standard action to activate. Should've checked that in the first place!

Thanks all!

Pinotage

In other words: useless.

 

[Hypersmurf]

One will notice that the rule for scrolls was written before swift and immediate spells were theorized, so of course, the prospect of a spell taking a shorter casting time was not addressed, since none of the spells have a shorter casting time.

The only exceptions to the above statement was for feather fall, which is a swift action when cast during your round, and quickened spells. Since foraging within your handbag to reach to a scroll kinda defeats the purpose of quickening spells, and since scrolls and other magic items are very seldom written with a metamagifed version of the spells, this could be considered as an oversight.

And yet using only Core rules, a wizard with a scroll of feather fall in his hand can activate it as a free action (though, arguably, only on his turn, since the item inherits the casting time (free action, in Core rules), but not explicitly the special feature that the spell may be cast outside your own turn)... but a wizard with a wand of feather fall in his hand activates it as a standard action.

If we introduce the new action types, and designate Feather Fall an immediate action, then the scroll can be activated outside the wizard's turn, since the item now inherits the casting time 'immediate action' rather than free action.

-Hyp.