call lightning

[zeroorez]

but under no circumstances could anything within the AMF be targeted by call lightning.

I never said that i target within the AMF, i know that wont work.
I said that I can use call lightning from within the AMF to it a target outside the area of the AMF.

 

[Nifft]

I said that I can use call lightning from within the AMF to it a target outside the area of the AMF.

An invisible barrier surrounds you and moves with you. The space within this barrier is impervious to most magical effects, including spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. Likewise, it prevents the functioning of any magic items or spells within its confines.

An antimagic field suppresses any spell or magical effect used within, brought into, or cast into the area, but does not dispel it. Time spent within an antimagic field counts against the suppressed spell’s duration.

You need not call a bolt of lightning immediately; other actions, even spellcasting, can be performed. However, each round after the first you may use a standard action (concentrating on the spell) to call a bolt.

First, explain how you are using a spell while within an AMF.

Then, how you are targeting line of effect through an AMF.

Cheers, -- N

 

[zeroorez]

First, explain how you are using a spell while within an AMF.

Then, how you are targeting line of effect through an AMF.

Cheers, -- N

first I will deal with your 2nd question

AMF does nothing to line of effect.

1st question

the spell is not in the AMF its everywhare and nowhere but not on the caster.
if the spell is on the caster then it will be suppressed by the AMF and i can share it with my animal companion.

the only action i take is concentrat on the spell.
does AMF stop concentration? no!

 

[Nifft]

AMF does nothing to line of effect.

I find DreamChaser's argument more compelling than your assertion.

If you have a rule-based argument, please do present it.

the only action i take is concentrat on the spell.

The first part of what I quoted prevents you from using any spell while in an AMF. If you're not using the spell to generate that lightning, what are you using?

Cheers, -- N

 

[zeroorez]

the spell does not mention that it blocks line of effect, so it does not!

if i fire ball the spread does not stop at the spaces covered by the AMF instead the effects are suppressed thus if the spread can cross the AMF spaces it will continue on the other side.

first part of what I quoted prevents you from using any spell while in an AMF. If you're not using the spell to generate that lightning, what are you using?

it does not prevent you from using spells within it.

AMF prevents spells from functioning within it, this is why i agree that i cann't target a space covered by an AMF but to hit a space out side the area of antimagic is a spell being used and taking effect outside the antimagic field.

 

[Nifft]

First: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#lineofEffect

A line of effect is canceled by a solid barrier.

Then: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/antimagicField.htm

An invisible barrier surrounds you and moves with you.

So, you have no line of effect.

Then:

An antimagic field suppresses any spell or magical effect used within, brought into, or cast into the area, but does not dispel it. Time spent within an antimagic field counts against the suppressed spell’s duration.

You cannot use a spell or magical effect while you are in an antimagic field. This means that you cannot use call lightning to make a lightning bolt.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Infiniti2000]

I find DreamChaser's argument more compelling than your assertion.

But, then DreamChaser's argument has nothing to do with this question. Neither the target point nor the starting point nor the place of the effect is contained within the AMF.

If you have a rule-based argument, please do present it.

In fact, I did, but I'm guessing you have me on ignore?

The first part of what I quoted prevents you from using any spell while in an AMF. If you're not using the spell to generate that lightning, what are you using?

No, it doesn't. There's a difference between preventing you from using a spell while in an AMF and using a spell within an AMF. Your interpretation on used within is not necessarily the correct one.

(two links...)
So, you have no line of effect.

It's a barrier, sure, but certainly not solid. Are you unable to walk from inside to the outside of an AMF? Are you unable to cast spells through a magic circle vs. (alignment)? It also evokes a barrier. Your argument here is specious.

You cannot use a spell or magical effect while you are in an antimagic field. This means that you cannot use call lightning to make a lightning bolt.

I've answered this above, but the rule actually says (from one interpretation) that you cannot use a spell/magic effect within the AMF. It does not say that you cannot use a spell/magical effect outside the AMF. Remember, in our case, the effect occurs entirely outside the AMF, from the starting point to the target point. It never originates, ends up, passes through, or is otherwise used inside the AMF.

 

[Nifft]

In fact, I did, but I'm guessing you have me on ignore?

Obviously.

There's a difference between preventing you from using a spell while in an AMF and using a spell within an AMF.

While in is different from within?

It's a barrier, sure, but certainly not solid.

Solidity is explained in the paragraphs following the line I quoted. Follow the link; I'm not going to paste the whole thing here.

I've answered this above, but the rule actually says (from one interpretation) that you cannot use a spell/magic effect within the AMF. It does not say that you cannot use a spell/magical effect outside the AMF. Remember, in our case, the effect occurs entirely outside the AMF, from the starting point to the target point. It never originates, ends up, passes through, or is otherwise used inside the AMF.

Except for the part that you are using to create the effect. Is something other than you doing the targeting and timing?

Cheers, -- N

 

[Infiniti2000]

While in is different from within?

Of course!

(a) I heard the explosion while in my car.

(b) I heard the explosion within my car.

Big difference, n'est-ce pas?

Solidity is explained in the paragraphs following the line I quoted. Follow the link; I'm not going to paste the whole thing here.

The extra text doesn't help your argument at all. You're trying to make a connection from "solid barrier" to "barrier" of some other type. There's no ambiguity in the Line of Effect description. It's a solid one, meaning that you cannot walk through it. A wall of force, stone, ice, etc. are solid barriers. An AMF, repel vermin (vs. e.g. a human), magic circle (vs. e.g. non-summoned), are not solid.

Except for the part that you are using to create the effect. Is something other than you doing the targeting and timing?

The underlined quote here is key. I agree that if the caster were trying to create the effect (i.e. cast it), then it would not work. Once cast, however, the lightning could be called while subsequently in an AMF because the effect has already been created.

I don't think anything you've provided proves that an AMF breaks line of effect (and keep in mind that I myself do in fact rule that it does). You also could try to argue that AMF disrupts concentration (which would also negate the call lightning while in the AMF), but I also don't think that you can prove that (especially since that would negate some artifacts since it would affect you personally and not the artifact).

 

[DreamChaser]

Out of curiosity, what is connecting the caster's will (the concentration on the spell that enables a standard action to summon down a lightning bolt) to the magic of the lightning bolt if not some sort of magic? If it is a magical effect that allows the caster to use nothing more than his will to call a lightning bolt, then this magic would also be suppressed.

Just to add further fuel to the fire of the LoE issue:

An invisible barrier surrounds you and moves with you. The space within this barrier is impervious to most magical effects, including spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. Likewise, it prevents the functioning of any magic items or spells within its confines.

Main Entry: firm
Part of Speech: adjective 1
Definition: inflexible
Synonyms: close, close-grained, compact, compressed, concentrated, concrete, condensed, congealed, dense, fine-grained, hard, hardened, heavy, impenetrable, impermeable, impervious, inelastic, jelled, jellified, nonporous, refractory, rigid, set, solid, solidified, stiff, sturdy, substantial, thick, thickset, tough, unyielding

So:
1: The spell states the the barrier is impervious
2: Impervious is synonymous with solid (not exact in definition, but very near in meaning)
Thus: Antimagic field creates a solid barrier.

1: Antimagic field creates a solid barrier
2: A solid barrier blocks line of effect
Thus: Antimagic field bocks line of effect.


Of course, as with anything else in D&D there is room for interpretation. I suppose that one could argue that mere linguistic standards are insufficient to support the rules of a game that takes place entirely in words, both written and oral.

Even then I freely admit that there is some room for interpretation in this (as well as my above) logic. My first syllogism in this post relies upon analogous meanings rather than exact matches (though the linguist in me can't help but wonder if any two words ever share exactly the same meaning).

I can say three things for sure:

1) I would never allow a caster to control call lightning from within an AMF in a game for which I was the GM.

2) Were I in a game run by the dissenters, I would shamelessly exploit the ability to control vaguely targeted spells from within an AMF.

3) I have yet to see the dissenting side of this argument offer more than "nuh uh" to my arguments -- and please keep in mind that assertions are not arguments (though I do cede and admire the point made to Nift regarding the distinction between within and while in; well played linguistic distinction).

DC