Calling all creative minds...help me devise a character!

boxstop7

First Post
First off, I'm not sure if this is the best place for this thread. But since there's probably going to be some heavy abuse of the rules here, I thought this the most appropriate forum...

Okay, so here it is. I'm asking for any and all characters you wonderful people can create with the following information:

- 6 total character levels (only PHB classes)
- any good or neutral alignment
- Elf as per the PHB
- Stats: 14 str, 20 dex, 13 con, 16 int, 15 wis, 14 cha (already adjusted)
- Feats and skills from PHB only
- 13,000 gold to spend
- Primary weapon: Rapier
- Basic concept: fights like a fencer. uses his agility and quickness to parry and dodge. studies opponents to learn their styles, then exploits their weaknesses.

Thanks a million for your creations and suggestions! And if this thread needs moved to a more fitting forum, please move me. :)

~Box
 
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I'd go with a simple Fighter 6.

Some good feats.
1 Expertise
1 Improved Disarm
2 Weapon Finess: Rapier
3 Weapon Focus: Rapier
4 Weapon Specialization: Rapier
6 Dodge
6 Quickdraw or Mobility

For more focus on tactics and speed and less on killing, lose Focus and Specialization, and pick up Spring Attack. This also leads well into Whirlwind attack.

As for skills, with your 16 int, you have pleanty of ranks, so go crossclass in Tumble, also get Jump, but this isn't that important, as skill boosters are pretty cheap. Check out the Ring of Jump or Skin of Tumbling (PsiHB). If you want more focus on the skills aspect, make it Rogue1/Fighter5. You lose a feat and second attack, but the extra skills and +1d6 of sneak attack may more than make it up.

For Two-Weapon Fun, take one level of Ranger, and get the Two-Weapon Parry feat, while you lose a feat, you gain some skills, and get the two-weapon abilites.

Obviously your future path should be Duelist, with you high Int, you're almost a posterchild for that class.
 

If you want pure power, go with a Cleric Archer. Your Wisdom is high enough for it, especially with statistic enhancing items, and Cleric Archers are horrifying to behold, especially Elves with that 20 Dexterity. You can GMW 50 of your arrows once you get the spell, and by fifteenth level you beat everythings DR. You'll have a great AC, good attacks, (especially with the Divine Favor and Divine Power spells) and of course the wonderful spells. Get one level of Fighter for an extra feat and the weapon profiencies.

I'd suggest purchasing just the basic equipment, with of course the requisite Archer stuff, like Bracers Of Archery, an Energy bow, etc. A buckler might be nice, especially with Magic Vestment around. Skills, basically the only must have is Concentration, I'd suggest getting Diplomacy and Knowledge: Religion as well, but that's me.

For feats, go with Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Precise Shot, and Weapon Focus: Mighty Composite Bow +4. Maybe go with Precise Shot instead of Weapon Focus if your companions have a habit of charging into melee without consideration. You'll be able to boost your strength later on through spells or items, and you'll have the +2 to damage right from the start.

Note that, if you have a god in your campaign whose favored weapon is the Mighty Composite Longbow, get the War Domain and ditch the level of Fighter. If not, I'd suggest the Magic and Travel domains. That should do for a very powerful and versatile character.

Edit: Didn't notice you were going for a Rapier wielder. Basically, my advice remains the same, however, drop the level of Fighter, and of course the Archery equipment and feats, and go for a Keen Rapier, other mods really up to you, a strength enhancing item or two, and get Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization and Improved Critical ASAP. I'd suggest taking an item creation feat like Scribe Scroll or Craft Wand so you can make a few healing items so you're not always healing the party instead of buffing yourself.
 
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You're an elf, so taking a ranger level for TWF = 20% xp penalty.

You could take a level in wizard and become a divination specialist for Shield and True strike, though. True Strike + Power Attack = pain. With 3 wizard levels, you'd also get See Invisibility and Blur, both of which could be really handy. I'd recommend giving up necromancy, of course. There's little reason for you to use it.
 

boxstop7 said:
First off, I'm not sure if this is the best place for this thread. But since there's probably going to be some heavy abuse of the rules here, I thought this the most appropriate forum...

Okay, so here it is. I'm asking for any and all characters you wonderful people can create with the following information:

- 6 total character levels (only PHB classes)
- any good or neutral alignment
- Elf as per the PHB
- Stats: 14 str, 20 dex, 13 con, 16 int, 15 wis, 14 cha (already adjusted)
- Feats and skills from PHB only
- 13,000 gold to spend
- Primary weapon: Rapier
- Basic concept: fights like a fencer. uses his agility and quickness to parry and dodge. studies opponents to learn their styles, then exploits their weaknesses.

Thanks a million for your creations and suggestions! And if this thread needs moved to a more fitting forum, please move me. :)

~Box

Sounds like we've got ourselves a ready-born rogue aye? Well being an elf you don't get as many multi-class opportunities unless you intend on following these classes for some time. For a bit more fighting ability I'd recommend a Ftr3/Rog3:

(1) Rog 1- Weapon Finesse: Rapier
(2) Ftr 1- Expertise
(3) Rog 2- Dodge
(4) Ftr 2- Mobility
(5) Rog 3
(6) Ftr 3- Spring Attack

+5 BAB
BFort +4, BRef +4, BWill +2
Sneak Attack +2d6
Evasion
Uncanny Dodge (dex bonus to AC).

At 6th level this char will have an attack with the rapier of +10 melee, loads of skill points, feats for an agile, high mobility, and opportunistic style of play. The extra sneak attack bonus to hit enemies when they are weakest suits the char style you're looking for, plus the uncanny dodge and evasion are nice "agile" additions to the char. Because of the low strength of this character it may be best to utilize these sneak attacks against opponents, that and in addition to the number of feats received from the fighter class will provide alot of nifty capabilities in combat.
 

With a character like this, I'd probably focus on being a Rogue or a Fighter. Fighter 6 or Rogue 6 are both good choices. Fighter 3/Rogue 3 isn't bad, but often specialization in a party is values more than versatility. It really depends on what else is in your party. If there's no Rogue, consider Rogue. If there's no melee combatant (Fighter or Barbarian), go Fighter.

It doesn't hurt to throw in a level of Wizard, either. A Rogue 5/Wizard 1 can make good use of various 1st level spells, and so can a Fighter 5/Wizard 1. But don't take too many Wizard levels, as it will dilute your primary class too much.
 

The abovementioned things are nice and well... but I have another idea. Not really suitable for powergaming, but at least something not generic.

Ranger1/Rog2/Wiz3.

I'd start with Ranger for hitpoints or rogue for skillhammer. Preferably ranger first since your rapier otherwise is crap. Be sure to pick up a bow and a CLW wand. You will miss your fireballs compared to a Rgr1/Wiz5, but IF your DM is not in the "Bah, you can't sneak at him if you're not invisible"- camp, you'll enjoy more abilities that can be used the whole day long. (Go for sneak attacked vampiric touch later!)

With your cash? Mostly some armourboosting equipment and wands of fireball :D

Edit: Before you think about any melee character, fighter6 or anything else... RAISE YOUR CONSTITUTION!

One spell slot for Endurance every day will save your life! You could always get a toad familiar... but that's not enough (and I would prefer a raven!)
 
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When you say PHB classes only, is that just to start or is the whole campaign going to be that way?

If you hadn't said that, I'm sure a lot of people would have mentioned the Duelist PrC. Your character is well set up for it.

In any case, I would go Rogue/Fighter. First two levels straight rogue, in order to get the Uncanny Dodge so you don't lose your Dex bonus to AC.

1 Rogue 1, Dodge
2 Rogue 2
3 Fighter 1 / Rogue 2, Weapon Finesse (Rapier), Weapon Focus (Rapier)
4 Fighter 2 / Rogue 2, Mobility, +1 Con for the hit points.
5 Rogue 3 / Fighter 2
6 Rogue 3 / Fighter 3, Spring Attack, +1 Dex

[ 7 Rogue 3 / Fighter 4: Weapon Specialization: Rapier ]

Get plenty of Tumble, plus Jump and Balance. If you take Use Magic Device, I would suggest you consider skill focus with it instead of one of the other feats given above.

On the other hand, if the GM would ever allow Duelist I would look up the requirements for that and go that route instead. Getting Int bonus to AC would be a big advantage for this character.

Equipment:

Chain Shirt +1, Light Fortification (protect against those criticals), 4250
Rapier +2, 8320
Miscellaneous scrolls assuming you have Use Magic Device.

You should really plan out to at least 10th level, assuming you are starting at 6th. Aim for certain feats that you really want.

Edit: I had meant Weapon Finesse (Rapier), not Expertise (Rapier). Expertise would be a nice feat eventually, but it is better to go for the Spring Attack.

Not sure want to do about the armor. I keep on forgetting about the Max Dex adjustment. Very annoying.
 
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bret said:
..., I'm sure a lot of people would have mentioned the Duelist PrC. Your character is well set up for it.

In any case, I would go Rogue/Fighter. First two levels straight rogue, in order to get the Uncanny Dodge so you don't lose your Dex bonus to AC.

Duelist: It was already mentioned, that's why noone else talked about it IMHO...

Nice setup for Rogue/Fighter, I just felt compelled to notice that you don't get Uncanny dodge with 2 levels rogue... but evasion rocks :D
Oh, and I would prefer to take Weapon Finesse (rapier).
 
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If your primary weapon is Rapier and you have a 20 dex, for God's sake man, take weapon finesse :).

Seriously though, that will be your most powerful feat. Also, with a +5 dex bonus to armor, the heaviest armor you are going to be able to wear (that is not mithril) will be studded leather - a.k.a. light armor. So right away Ranger and Rogue are looking pretty good. However, Fighter and Wizard would also be options.

If you want agility and quickness with dodging and parry you are looking at expertise and dodge for defense and Mobility, Spring attack and tumble for agility. You might also want to throw in Jump and Balance.

There is nothing in the PHB that specifically deals with studying your opponent's weaknesses and using them against him. In 2E there was a NWP I believe in the Ninja's Handbook that dealt with doing exactly that...I think it was something like know the school or some such thing. In one of the splat books, I believe they do something similar with sense motive. I have always thought that there should be a knowledge out there that would cover fighting styles that could be used to know the strengths and weaknesses of different styles - but all of this is subject to sources outside the PHB. For the concept though, Sense Motive and an appropriate knowlege skill would seem to do the trick.

As for equipment: boots of springing and striding, cloak ofprotection, amulet of natural armor, gloves of dexterity, keen rapier, ring of evasion seem to fit the bill (I know way more than you can afford).

So let's look at what we got:

Armor - light

Feats - Weapon Finesse (Rapier), Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack

Skills - Tumble, Jump, Balance, Sense Motive, Knowledge (fighting styles)

So you have a couple of routes to achieve these ends:

Fighter 6

Pro's - best BAB, all feats (+2 others - I would choose from Weapon Focus, combat reflexes, Quickdraw, Improved Disarm, Whirlwind Attack, Blindfight, Weapon Specialization, Improved Iniative)

Con's - poor Reflex save (goes against the grain of an agile character), low damage output (raises the importance of getting weapon specialization), heavier armor proficiencies wasted (unless you can get ahold of some mithril medium armor), crossclassed skills

Rogue 6

Pro's - Sneak attack obviates the need for weapon specialization, all the skills you could ever want (you will also need bluff to be able to feint to take advantage of sneak attack when not flanking), good reflex save, evasion (don't need ring), uncanny dodge

Con's - medium BAB (not that bad since you have such a high dex and with Gloves of dexterity this is almost a nonissue), only 3 feats (I would choose Weapon Finesse - Rapier, Dodge, and Mobility) this also means that your feat selection in the future is going to be limited. I would go for Spring Attack, Expertise, Improved Critical, Improved Initiative, and or quickdraw. If in the future you are not limited to PHB definitely get ET.

You could go for a combination:

Fig 3/Rog 3

Pro's - Better BAB than straight Rogue, can still max out necessary skills, can take all 5 feats, better reflex save than fighter, still have 2d6 SA dmg, have evasion and uncanny dodge

Con's - None (in terms of your concept). You do not have as many skill points, don't have as high of a max save for either F or R, have less HP than the fighter and with your con that can be dangerous. However, for your concept this would seem to fit the bill the best.

You could also go for quite a different combination.

A Ranger either in combination with the Fighter or Rogue or both will give you the ability to fight with 2 weapons. I would stay away from Strainght Ranger as you can't get Weapon Specialization to compensate for low damage, you get no bonus feats, and no SA.

Ran 3/ Fig 3

Pro's - Still get all 5 feats, have best BAB, get TWF, gain access to some minor magical abilities in future and can use wands

Con's - poor Reflex Save, same skill problem as with straight fighter, you could get the same benefit of TWF without the limitation with a Fig 6

Ran 3/Rog 3

Probably worse combination as you lose out on the feats. Only go this route if you really want TWF and don't want a lot of feats.

Ran 2/Fig 2/Rog 2

Not a bad choice (probably the most min/maxed choice).

Pro's - can get all 5 feats with TWF, get SA which will increase (more slowly however), evasion, max out appropriate skills

Con's - over the long run, you will only ever get 4d6 SA which is poor if that is what you are shooting for. You should be able to keep your skills maxed out but at the cost of all the other skills (not sure if that matters).

The other option is to consider Magic. Wizard is the favored class. Some spells warrant particular attention:

Expeditious Retreat (if you can't get the boots) - You will be amazed how much this helps with Spring Attacking.
Mage Armor - Better than any nonmagical nonspecial materials armor for your dex bonus.
Shield - one of the best defensive spells in the game. You are looking at a 26 AC (w/MA) without using expertise, dodge, or fighting defensively - you will effectively be unhittable.
True Strike - Even with maxing out Expertise and fighting defensively, you will still always hit. Also, this opens the door to Power Attacking, which is another compensation for your lack of damage output with the rapier.
Blur, Invisibility, Blink, Displacement, Improved Invisibility - all deny opponent their dex bonus. If you are a rogue, these spells are indispensable
Cat's Grace - increase AC, AB, and Reflex Save
Endurance - increase low HP's
Jump, Spiderclimb, Levitate, Fly - increase motility. Especially with fly, I recently ran an adventure where the party just acquired this spell and they were all flying. It was ridiculous how far they could move in a round.

With a high enough UMD and access to the above spells, the wizard is unneccessary. However, this puts the ball in your DM's court and you lose all control to have such abilities. This also deviates from the notion of a duelist in the traditional sense.

It's really important to know if you will be limited to the PHB for the entire campaign. If you are not go for the duelist - it fits your concept perfectly - as has already been iterated. Moreover, if you decide for rogue, you really want to get expert tactician. Finally, look to Dragon 305 and the duelist one (sorry, forget the number), there are a number of really REALLY cool feats in there. That would match your concept.

Hope all that helps.
 

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