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Calling all Europeans...


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Ooh York! I've been to York. I think we stayed a night there on my European vacation... 14 years ago. Looking at the pictures I took brings back memories. Yes, it was nice there.

This is just day 1 of putting our thoughts into motion, folks, so please don't think we're diving headfirst into anything sopping with ignorance. We realize that we probably have several years of research and preparation ahead of us before we take any action.
 


Generally speaking in the UK, the cost of living in large cities is exponentially higher than in outlying areas. London is very expensive for property (rent or purchase) for instance.

If you do look at going to the UK, consider regional centres, instead. Especially ones with good rail links to London (Newark is an example - my grandmother lives there, and finds the travel to be little hassle). You'll get a better standard of living for less cost, this way.
 

Depending on how politically minded you are I have recently found out things on Europe that surprised me and that I would not like very much. They (in general) do not elect their leaders, they vote for a party who then decides who will be the leader. Also unlike the US they rarely have referrendums on laws, and are generally less democratic than I thought. If Horacio explained things to me correctly. :D

Edit : Ok the above for at least Spain and France. :)
 
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Well, in general in Europe, at least the part of Europe I know, democracy is maybe not as direct as in USA.

There is no elections for judges, governors or sheriff. Referendums are rare and only for the most important matters (last on in Spain was for going into the NATO).

In Spain, for example, we vote parties, not people (closed list, you must take a party and vote for it) for Congress, people for Senate. Governors are chosoen by government, judges are chosen by exam, and get their post until retirement, law officials are choosen from police, and not voted.
 
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Dragongirl said:
Depending on how politically minded you are I have recently found out things on Europe that surprised me and that I would not like very much. They (in general) do not elect their leaders, they vote for a party who then decides who will be the leader. Also unlike the US they rarely have referrendums on laws, and are generally less democratic than I thought. If Horacio explained things to me correctly. :D

Edit : Ok the above for at least Spain and France. :)

Hi Dragongirl

I'd have to say that the above is both right and wrong at the same time. Europe has a different approach to democracy but not necessarily a less democratic approach - for instance much of Europe (though not the UK (well, not for General Elections - this could get complicated) follows a system of proportional representation, where parties are allocated seats in direct proportion to the number of votes cast, rather than using the first-past-the-post system favoured in the UK and US, which tends to distort the final result of any ballot (though largely avoiding the risk of constant coalition government as seen in many European states and others such as Israel &c). You also have to bear in mind that, unlike the US, most European countries don't operate on an essentially 2-party system, thus allowing a wider range of voices to be heard. There are generally also much stronger laws on the funding of parties/candidates by lobby groups/companies - this combined with much lower electoral costs reduces (though by no means eliminates) the risk of politicians being in the pockets of Big Tobacco/Big Oil/&c.

These are just a few examples. I'd really hate to say which system was the more democratic (though I would lay a hell of a lot of money that it's not China)

As for the leader thing, it's important not to confuse the role of symbolic heads of state (eg Queen Elizabeth in the UK, King Juan Carlos of Spain) and political leaders (eg Tony Blair in the UK). In the US, both roles are held by the President, in countries with monarchies the Head of State (whose functions are essentially symbolic) is not elected but the Political Leader is. Generally, the political leader will be the leader of the party which has a parliamentary majority - eg in the UK 1997 Tony Blair was the leader of the opposition, chosen by all members of the Labour Party; when Labour won a massive majority in the 1997 General Election, Tony Blair became Prime Minister. Blair campaigned on the Labour Party manifesto and everyone who voted knew that if Labour won, Blair would become PM. In France, Germany &c, in contrast, the Head of State is directly elected

Apologies to everyone if this has turned into a lecture. Hope it hasn't been too boring (and that anyone will tell me if I've managed to complete muck up my run down of euro-politics)

And good luck with your move Malessa (I'd have to confirm that living in London is (a) ridiculously expensive and (b) about as rural as Manhattan but don't let that put you off the rest of the UK)

FF
 

Ummm... right. This thread switched from the cost of living in the UK to somebody's opinion of European democratic systems in the space of one post.

What are the two things we never discuss on these messageboards, folks? Keep it in topic, please, or it'll get closed.
 

hey.. I was around at my folks and they mentioned something about really really cheap land/vineyards for sale/given away in Italy. But you have to live there and stuff.. cause young people keep moving away. You should look into it.. a Wine Maker you could become!!

Although.. those old musty European wines will never be as good as the wonderful Austrailian ones :D
 

Dragongirl said:
Depending on how politically minded you are I have recently found out things on Europe that surprised me and that I would not like very much. They (in general) do not elect their leaders, they vote for a party who then decides who will be the leader. Also unlike the US they rarely have referrendums on laws, and are generally less democratic than I thought. If Horacio explained things to me correctly. :D

Edit : Ok the above for at least Spain and France. :)


In Denmark leaders ARE elected. Countries with a Prime Minister don't vote DIRECTLY for the leader (but he's usually the front man of the campaign and the one to rack up personal votes) since we are not talking about a President here (and in systems like ours a president won't work). The Northern European democracies are fundamentally different than the Southern as well in many ways.

And a few adverts for Denmark:

Very low level of poverty
Very high average income per capita
Nice and clean cities
Only 8500 homeless people
Free education for everyone
Free healthcare
Free social welfare (they may encourage you to work, though)
The vast majority understand English
Good environment
Easy-going attitude towards alcohol, sex, and the like
Very restricted access to firearms
Tons of partying going on
More pretty girls than you'll ever want to look at....

ON the low side the taxation rate is awful and we currently have a Liberal government - but that had to be like that...

-Zarrock
 
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