Calling all number crunchers - UA ?

[Jon Potter]

Picked up and love the new Unearthed Arcana!

I want to immediately start using the Bloodlines option in my campaign, but my players are balking at the idea of taking "phantom levels". I considered applying an experience point penalty instead - an option that they find much more palatable.

I'm terrible at math, but my initial thought was a 5% penalty per "phantom level" that the Bloodline requires per the rules in UA. I arrived at that number by the amazingly scientific method of figuring one level out of twenty levels (I don't plan to go Epic) is 5%.

So a minor Bloodline would cost a 5% experience penalty, an intermediate Bloodline would warrant a 10% penalty and a major bloodline would incur 15%.

My question is: does this work out properly? Have I totally unbalanced the Bloodlines in some way - making them either too good or too costly? I'd rather find out now than six months farther into the game.

Any help is appreciated.

 

[diaglo]

don't have it yet.

but what are the bonus/penalty builds for feats?

it takes X number of levels to get a feat and Y prerequisites. so if you have X and Y you can take Z feat.

+1 = 1 in 20 or 5%

so to build a +3 you are saying you want to just stack them.

i would be tempted to go the way of magic...make it exponential.

so 1 lvl for +1 but 2 more lvls to get +2 and 4 more for +3

in essence first xp penalty = 5%
second penalty = 15%
and third penalty = 35%

but i like slower progression.

 

[Jon Potter]

in essence first xp penalty = 5%
second penalty = 15%
and third penalty = 35%

but i like slower progression.

Yikes! I guess you do like slower progressions! I have a feeling that my players would never use the option if I made the penalties that stiff!

I also don't know that the higher end bloodlines are necessarily worth that cost in any event. There are some pretty cool options at high levels (15+) such as a breath weapon for the major dragon bloodlines, but a 35% penalty to experience seems excessive to me.

Perhaps I'm too permissive. I'm not looking to overly-bolster my PCs, but I don't want to cripple them either. Well, not with rules, anyway.

Thanks for the additional perspective, diaglo.

 

[diaglo]

Thanks for the additional perspective, diaglo.

no problem

so now you've mentioned dragonblood. a few more ideas come to mind.

maybe treat it like ECL.

ECL +1 for first, +2 for second and +3 for third.

edit: unless that is what you mean by "phantom levels"

the mechanic works fine.
ECL 0 ECL 1 ECL2 ECL3

1 0xp-999 0xp-2999 0xp-5999 0xp-9999
2 1000xp 3000xp 6000xp 10000xp
3 3000xp 6000xp 10000xp 15000xp
4 6000xp 10000xp 15000xp 21000xp

 

[EricNoah]

Number crunching generally survives best in the Rules forum.

 

[Storminator]

Picked up and love the new Unearthed Arcana!

I want to immediately start using the Bloodlines option in my campaign, but my players are balking at the idea of taking "phantom levels". I considered applying an experience point penalty instead - an option that they find much more palatable.

I'm terrible at math, but my initial thought was a 5% penalty per "phantom level" that the Bloodline requires per the rules in UA. I arrived at that number by the amazingly scientific method of figuring one level out of twenty levels (I don't plan to go Epic) is 5%.

So a minor Bloodline would cost a 5% experience penalty, an intermediate Bloodline would warrant a 10% penalty and a major bloodline would incur 15%.

My question is: does this work out properly? Have I totally unbalanced the Bloodlines in some way - making them either too good or too costly? I'd rather find out now than six months farther into the game.

Any help is appreciated.

Explain to your players that the phantom levels are a better deal. The penalty in XP is pretty much the same, but the phantom levels let the player chose when to take the XP hit. If I'm penalized at a constant rate, I'm forced to hit 2nd level late, and 3rd level late, etc. But if I can choose to take my phantom level at 4th level (for example), I still get my 2nd and 3rd levels at the right time.

Then I can tailor my phantom levels as I need to. Let's say the party wizard blows a bunch of XP on magic items. He falls behind, but I take my next level as a phantom, and I fall back too, and we're pretty equal. Also, if the PC dies before he buys his phantom level, he never pays the penalty at all! And if other PCs die and are replaced by a lower level PC, I can take the phantom level ASAP, and we're back to even.

PS

 

[DonAdam]

When the phantom levels are taken is fixed.

You could just grant everybody an intermediate bloodline (there aren't enough major bloodlines) and not have any penalties. If everyone has one, you only have to adjust the level of your encounters rather than worrying about intra-party balance.

 

[Storminator]

When the phantom levels are taken is fixed.

Ah. I thought it was required at or before a certain level. See what happens when you post while the book's at home?

PS

 

[Jon Potter]

Ah. I thought it was required at or before a certain level. See what happens when you post while the book's at home?

PS

It is required at a certain level. At least in so much as you start accruing a 20% xp penalty and don't get any further bloodline abilities until you do take the phantom level.

And FWIW, I don't have my book in front of me either, so that may not be 100% accurate. That's what I remembered from my earlier time spent cogitating on the info, though.

You raise a good point about tailoring when you take the phantom level in order to stay with the group. But then you run up against the built-in penalty if you delay too long.

 

[Jon Potter]

no problem

so now you've mentioned dragonblood. a few more ideas come to mind.

maybe treat it like ECL.

I would do just that except that the bloodline abilities are doled out over time rather than all at once as would be the case with a standard ECL.