Calling out, "systems mastery"

[tomBitonti]

Versatile Spellcaster gives the wizard the ability to cast the spells, therefore Domain Wizard gives it to them known.

Versatile Spellcaster only gives the ability to cast spells already known. Am I misreading that, or do I have the wrong text? (Was the "you know" text added as a fix?)

You can use two spell slots of the same level to cast a spell you know that is one level higher.

If this text is correct, you could, as a 5'th level wizard, cast a 3'rd level spell (say, Fireball) using two second level slots. But you wouldn't gain the ability to cast any 4'th level spells with two 3'rd level slots, since you don't know any 4'th level spells.

Thx!

TomB

Edit: That does bring up some questions: Could the same 5'th level wizard use two 2'nd level slots to cast a 1'st level spell which was metamagic'ed to require a 3'rd level slot? Could a 5'th level wizard use two 3'rd level slots to cast a 2'nd level spell which was metamagiced to require a 4'th level slot?

 

[MoonSong]

I just want to add my two coppers to this one. In fact it is only one, notice the wording of Versatile Spellcaster "You can use two spell slots of the same level to cast a spell you know that is one level higher. For example, a sorcerer with this feat can expend two 2nd-level spell slots to cast any 3rd-level spell he knows."

Notice how this one gives the ability to join two slots cast a spell one level higher, but it says nothing about using two slots to prepare that same spell, a wizard with alacritous cognition can only use one slot per day for the purposes of spontaneous spellcasting, so he cannot benefit from it at all!!!.
​

 

[Cyclone_Joker]

Please check the text of Contingency: there is a minimum caster level. Contingency + Celerity is illegal for a 1st level caster.

You're missing how easy it is to boost caster level. Especially with the duration, there's no reason not to go balls-out at least once every so often.

Is the 1st level wizard casting 9th level spells required to be a Domain Wizard, or is there another way to gain the ability?

You can abuse taint and its super-Heighten with Extra Slot. All the other shennanigans I've got off the top of my head require Turn Undead or Bardic Music, so you need to be at least level 2.

A fun fact about the Taint trick, though: With a little bit of added work you don't actually even need the wizard level. I'm personally quite proud of making that little trick.

Versatile Spellcaster only gives the ability to cast spells already known. Am I misreading that, or do I have the wrong text? (Was the "you know" text added as a fix?)

If this text is correct, you could, as a 5'th level wizard, cast a 3'rd level spell (say, Fireball) using two second level slots. But you wouldn't gain the ability to cast any 4'th level spells with two 3'rd level slots, since you don't know any 4'th level spells.

The text is right but you're reading it wrong. All that's needed is the inherent ability to cast it and then Elven Wizard and Domain Wizard do their magic. It's like using Sanctum to qualify.

But, as I said, Heighten doesn't harm the build to throw in there.

Edit: That does bring up some questions: Could the same 5'th level wizard use two 2'nd level slots to cast a 1'st level spell which was metamagic'ed to require a 3'rd level slot? Could a 5'th level wizard use two 3'rd level slots to cast a 2'nd level spell which was metamagiced to require a 4'th level slot?

That depends on interpretation of metamagic and the quality of your helmet. A solid argument could be made, and this argument applies to Wish and Miracle, too, that since all it specifies is "level," you could use it for free metamagic. Just from the text, it's a reasonable interpretation, albeit one that will likely result in books being thrown at your head. And one that I personally despise, so I'd rather avoid going that road. Heighten is just special because it's Heighten.

I just want to add my two coppers to this one. In fact it is only one, notice the wording of Versatile Spellcaster "You can use two spell slots of the same level to cast a spell you know that is one level higher. For example, a sorcerer with this feat can expend two 2nd-level spell slots to cast any 3rd-level spell he knows."
Notice how this one gives the ability to join two slots cast a spell one level higher, but it says nothing about using two slots to prepare that same spell, a wizard with alacritous cognition can only use one slot per day for the purposes of spontaneous spellcasting, so he cannot benefit from it at all!!!.

Close, but no cigar. It does indeed say "cast," rather than "prepare," but you're forgetting that the specific trumps the general, and that Alacritous Cogitation and VS are entirely unconnected abilities.. In this case, the only result is that it allows a wizard to cast spontaneously by sacrificing slots

 

[Umbran]

Ladies and gentlemen,

A little note about "calling out". Remember something - it takes two to tango.

If you don't like how someone says something, or you think they are incorrect, that's fine. And you can discuss it. But digging in to beat the other side into submission is not constructive. And I see what is likely a whole lot of that going on here.

There is a point at which it is better to decide that you shouldn't respond to a particular poster. This is the internet. You don't actually get anything for "winning". The Great Cosmic Rulekeeper isn't watching the score, or something, so just walking away is acceptable. Please do not allow your inner-primate's need to get the other guy to back down control the conversation, because that won't actually help anyone in any real way.

 

[MoonSong]

Close, but no cigar. It does indeed say "cast," rather than "prepare," but you're forgetting that the specific trumps the general, and that Alacritous Cogitation and VS are entirely unconnected abilities.. In this case, the only result is that it allows a wizard to cast spontaneously by sacrificing slots

I beg to differ but Alacritous Cognition is fairly specific "If you leave an arcane spell slot open when preparing spells, you can use that open slot to cast any arcane spell you know of the same level or lower."

Versatile Spellcaster gives you only the ability to use two slots to cast a spell of a higher level, but not to prepare a spell of a higher level and a wizard with AC can only use one slot and to cast an equal or lower level spell. Even if we get generous and allow AC to use two open slots at the time it will only work once per day for a wizard. Still potentially broken, but not so much.

 

[Cyclone_Joker]

Nop, you are the one who is forgetting it. Alacritous Cognition is fairly specific "lIf you leave an arcane spell slot open when preparing spells, you canuse that open slot to cast any arcane spell you know of the same level or lower." Versatile Spellcaster gives you only the ability to use two slots to cast a spell of a higher level, but not to prepare a spell of a higher level and a wizard with AC can only use one slot and to cast an equal or lower level spell. Even if we get generous and allow AC to use two open slots at the time it will only work once per day for a wizard, but frankly the text of AC is way more specific and precise than the one of VS.

Incorrect. Alacritous Cogitation has literally nothing to do with the build other than qualifying for VS. It is not used at all. Versatile Spellcaster is an entirely independent ability.

 

[MoonSong]

Incorrect. Alacritous Cogitation has literally nothing to do with the build other than qualifying for VS. It is not used at all. Versatile Spellcaster is an entirely independent ability.

VS is speciffic enough it says "cast", not "prepare and cast". A wizard would need AC not just to qualify, but also to get any benefit at all from it.

 

[Cyclone_Joker]

VS is speciffic enough it says "cast", not "prepare and cast". A wizard would need AC not just to qualify, but also to get any benefit at all from it.

Wrong. They are entirely separate. The two abilities have literally nothing to do with each other beyond one being a prereq. The VS effectively gives the wizard spontaneous casting, as the specific trumps the general.

 

[Remathilis]

This thread has inspired me to run Basic D&D and nothing else.

 

[MoonSong]

This thread has inspired me to run Basic D&D and nothing else.

Nah, don't give up on good ol' 3e yet. This is just theoretical Munchkinism with a good dose of optimizers fallacy all over the place (like pun pun). I don't think any DM with any experience under their belt would allow it, and doing that to a noob DM is just plain mean.

But while we are at it, is there any similar combo that works for sorcerers?.