Calling out, "systems mastery"

[Dandu]

Since it seems the two of you still don't get it, allow me to make it as clear as possible: Versatile Spellcaster doesn't give you any slots. It does, however, enable Elven Wizard to jump up, which leads to Domain Wizard moving up, which allows the loop to continue.

Correct me if I am wrong, but you are arguing that Elven Generalist gives you the extra spells known upon character creation?

 

[Cyclone_Joker]

The fact that the mechanics are variants that require DM approval to be used matters because that approval is relevant for any claim of legitimacy.

So you've not paid attention at all.

Exactly. Read what you've written again. I agree. You've got problems.

:rofl:

Yeah, that wasn't even a nice try. I accept your concession.

Should a player be allowed to cast a 2'nd level spell at first level (or a 3'rd level spell at 3'rd level)?

Personally? I don't have a problem with Versatile Spellcaster on list casters like Warmage.

Should a 1'st level wizard be allowed to prepare Scorching Ray at a cost of two first level slots? Should a 3'rd level wizard be allowed to prepare Fireball at a cost of two second level slots?

...Uh, if a wizard really wants to prepare those spells, I don't see any problem at all with that.

Look, just get over the fact that your wrong, there are posts here that clearly prove that.

Wrong because you say so despite all the facts disagreeing with you? lolokay

Now if you know your right, why do you even bother? Nothing you or anyone will say will change your mind as I see it. So I ask again, why even bother?

Something could change my mind. It'd just have to be a correct argument. Nothing you have done is even remotely connected to the rules.

Side comment: Bah, the fact that you created an EN-world account on the 10th of September and that they kicked you from MMB explains a lot to me.

Uh, what? Dude, I, along with dozens of others, were kicked from WotC, not Minmax. If you're going to try to not-so-subtly imply insults, at least get your facts right.

Correct me if I am wrong, but you are arguing that Elven Generalist gives you the extra spells known upon character creation?

Domain Wizard does.

 

[TwoSix]

Let's set aside the clever cascade to 9'th level.

Should a player be allowed to cast a 2'nd level spell at first level (or a 3'rd level spell at 3'rd level)?

Should a 1'st level wizard be allowed to prepare Scorching Ray at a cost of two first level slots? Should a 3'rd level wizard be allowed to prepare Fireball at a cost of two second level slots?

(We don't need to demonstrate that the stronger application is a problem if a weaker, simpler, application is already a problem. If a Donkey breaks a bridge, we don't need to show that that an Elephant will.)

Thx!

TomB

By RAW, yes. By intent, no. It's pretty obvious that the feat is supposed to apply to spontaneous casters only, by the feat prereqs, and by the word choice in the benefit. The only reasons wizards "know" spells is a poorly worded sentence in the Wizard spell description. I don't have an issue with Versatile Spellcaster + Heighten Spell being used to access PrCs early, though, since most of those PrCs are on the weaker side if you follow the expected entry progression (Mystic Theurge, etc.).

 

[Ragmon]

Uh, what? Dude, I, along with dozens of others, were kicked from WotC, not Minmax. If you're going to try to not-so-subtly imply insults, at least get your facts right.

The people from MMB asking me to refrain from even mentioning MMB to you, in fear of you going back there say otherwise. But what ever.

 

[Ranes]

So you've not paid attention at all.

Simply incorrect.

I accept your concession.

Then I accept yours. Oh dear.

 

[Cyclone_Joker]

The people from MMB asking me to refrain from even mentioning MMB to you, in fear of you going back there say otherwise. But what ever.

Sure, and I'm totally in Vin Disiel's RPG group and he says you're wrong.

ucwatididthar?

Simply incorrect.

I agree, you are.

Then I accept yours. Oh dear.

Trollololol?

 

[TwoSix]

The people from MMB asking me to refrain from even mentioning MMB to you, in fear of you going back there say otherwise. But what ever.

There's even a whole thread there about almost the exact same topic where he also argues against everyone else. Awesome.

 

[Savage Wombat]

Since it seems the two of you still don't get it, allow me to make it as clear as possible: Versatile Spellcaster doesn't give you any slots. It does, however, enable Elven Wizard to jump up, which leads to Domain Wizard moving up, which allows the loop to continue.

Since you don't get it, allow me to make it clear to you : It does not enable Elven Wizard to jump up, because it doesn't give you any slots. Q.E.D.

Your entire build is predicated on this one idea - and it does not work that way.

 

[Cyclone_Joker]

Since you don't get it, allow me to make it clear to you : It does not enable Elven Wizard to jump up, because it doesn't give you any slots. Q.E.D.

Already addressed. No points for effort, though, since you're repeating what's already disproved.

Your entire build is predicated on this one idea - and it does not work that way.

Except it does.

 

[Jackinthegreen]

Argumentative logic demands that if you're going to say it's already addressed you really need to provide a quote (or at least some citation) back to where it was addressed because obviously someone either missed it or didn't think it was actually addressed properly. Handwaving that sort of thing by saying "I've already addressed that" and nothing else is a laughable tactic politicians use.