Calling out, "systems mastery"

[Greenfield]

I'd take exception to the interpretation that a Druid or Cleric can "spontaneously" cast spells. The can convert any (non-domain) spell to a Summon or Harm/Heal spell, respectively, but because this conversion takes an action in and of itself (a move action, to be specific), I'd say it doesn't qualify. You are dealing in prepared spells, but the rules allow you to change that spell under specific circumstances.

Beyond that, from what I've read in this thread, the two class builds for the 1-to-9 escalation seem to be mutually exclusive. They both require you to trade in the ability to Specialize, and since you give it up for the first option, you don't have it to trade for the second.

Beyond that, how would a level 1 anything take two different class options?

I freely admit that I don't come close to knowing all the rules, but any build/maneuver that requires some sort of retroactive knowledge, as this one does, seems deserving of a Heightened, Empowered, Maximized, Widened Dispel BS.

But hey, if somebody cast that, this whole thread would disappear! And what fun would that be?

 

[Dandu]

Beyond that, from what I've read in this thread, the two class builds for the 1-to-9 escalation seem to be mutually exclusive. They both require you to trade in the ability to Specialize, and since you give it up for the first option, you don't have it to trade for the second.

Elven Generalist prohibits specialization as a Wizard. The Domain Wizard, however, is an alternate base class, which does not have the ability to specialize. It seems that combining the two is debatable because Domain Wizard, as an alternate base class, may not quality for Elven Generalist.

 

[Ragmon]

I'd take exception to the interpretation that a Druid or Cleric can "spontaneously" cast spells. The can convert any (non-domain) spell to a Summon or Harm/Heal spell, respectively, but because this conversion takes an action in and of itself (a move action, to be specific), I'd say it doesn't qualify. You are dealing in prepared spells, but the rules allow you to change that spell under specific circumstances.

Beyond that, from what I've read in this thread, the two class builds for the 1-to-9 escalation seem to be mutually exclusive. They both require you to trade in the ability to Specialize, and since you give it up for the first option, you don't have it to trade for the second.

Beyond that, how would a level 1 anything take two different class options?

I freely admit that I don't come close to knowing all the rules, but any build/maneuver that requires some sort of retroactive knowledge, as this one does, seems deserving of a Heightened, Empowered, Maximized, Widened Dispel BS.

But hey, if somebody cast that, this whole thread would disappear! And what fun would that be?

*The audience goes wild*

 

[MerricB]

I'd take exception to the interpretation that a Druid or Cleric can "spontaneously" cast spells. The can convert any (non-domain) spell to a Summon or Harm/Heal spell, respectively, but because this conversion takes an action in and of itself (a move action, to be specific), I'd say it doesn't qualify. You are dealing in prepared spells, but the rules allow you to change that spell under specific circumstances.

You must be using a house rule for the conversion. In 3.5E (which this conversation is about), the description of the Cleric has the heading "Spontaneous Casting" and there is no time required for the conversion. It is specifically called out in the Rules Compendium in the section on Spontaneous Casting.

I find the methods by which a 1st level character can cast 9th level spells otherwise spurious, but the rules for Clerics spontaneously casting spells are correct.

 

[Cadence]

I'd take exception to the interpretation that a Druid or Cleric can "spontaneously" cast spells.

Their ability is specifically called "Spontaneous Casting" though. On the other hand, they don't "know spells" (see #21 and #23 in this thread for that).

Elven Generalist prohibits specialization as a Wizard. The Domain Wizard, however, is an alternate base class, which does not have the ability to specialize. It seems that combining the two is debatable because Domain Wizard, as an alternate base class, may not quality for Elven Generalist.

Elven Generalist is seemingly unavailable to Domain Wizards by RAW (see #108 in this thread).

 

[Cyclone_Joker]

Considering the ease of which it's possible to go back and quote yourself (and others) here, I would think such little effort to give yourself a far stronger footing against your questioners would appeal to you.

Considering the types of posts others have been making, I doubt it would make a difference.

That's exactly what a semicolon does. The reason it's a semicolon there, and not a period, is precisely because those two statements are directly connected.

Yes and no. You can't take the first half of a statement on the far side of a semicolon and treat it as if it were just on the other side. It doesn't work like that.

But in any case, it doesn't matter - I only need the second statement. If the Elf Generalist has given up the ability to specialise, he no longer has the versatility to specialise in an entire school in order to exchange that for the ability to cast with increased power; he cannot take Domain Wizard. Conversely, if he has exchanged that versatility, the Domain Wizard no longer has the ability to specialise, so can't replace it; he cannot become an Elf Generalist.

Wrong. One cannot specialize and one exchanges its ability to specialize.

@Cyclone_Joker

Sidestepping the issue of whether Generalist and Domain both replace the same ability (which seems to have quite a few other people out there on the interwebs who think that they aren't doing that on a slim technicality), how about this:

A Domain Wizard cannot take Generalist Wizardry because by RAW a "Domain Wizard" is not a "Wizard" (see the excerpt below from UA about the Bard and Bardic Sage being merely "very similar" classes). An additional argument/reinforcement is given by the Generalist Wizard only being available to a "standard wizard" by the RAW of RotW. By UA RAW, variants are not "standard class".

You're wrong here, but this is by far the best-supported argument against me here. First allow me to say it was well-done and a fun read.

Sadly, it doesn't work because the domain wizard is a variant WIZARD. The definition of the word "Variant" kinda screws your argument over. The Domain Wizard is still a wizard. It still even has the specialization class feature, even if you can't use it. I must say, though, that I am impressed. I'd missed that little bit of text.

My suspicion is that his argument is just that. CJ might argue - delericho's rebuttal notwithstanding - that he could acquire these spells at first level through other means, even if he did not have them in his spell book at the instant the character was created, though that would make his character something of a paper tiger.

Does the word "heighten" sound familiar?

Beyond that, from what I've read in this thread, the two class builds for the 1-to-9 escalation seem to be mutually exclusive. They both require you to trade in the ability to Specialize, and since you give it up for the first option, you don't have it to trade for the second.

Except, as I've mentioned, the Domain wizard doesn't actually trade in specialization, it just prohibits its use.

Beyond that, how would a level 1 anything take two different class options?

Because they're both available?

But hey, if somebody cast that, this whole thread would disappear! And what fun would that be?

I like this guy.

 

[Greenfield]

Okay, I think I was remembering/mis-remembering something from 3.0 about converting spells using the Move action. I was apparently wrong regarding current rules.

As for the rest of it: This is turning into an ego-storm, and those are never fun. I'm out.

 

[Ragmon]

@ Cyclone_Joker
Lets start from the other end, what would it take to convince you that your wrong on the 1-9 build?
What would I need to say to you to admit your wrong?

 

[Cyclone_Joker]

@ Cyclone_Joker
Lets start from the other end, what would it take to convince you that your wrong on the 1-9 build?
What would I need to say to you to admit your wrong?

At this point? I'd like some text explicitly proving that any one critical part of this doesn't work. I've already proven it does with the pieces mentioned, so if anyone can provide explicit proof it doesn't work, I'll gladly admit I was wrong. I'd much rather be right than "win" an argument on the internet, after all.

 

[Hussar]

/snip
Huh, I can only reach CL 10 before resorting to magic items. So unless we start laughing at the WBL table(Something trivially easy to do, but I'll hold off on it for now), so I'll have to concede that, without items, feats, traits, and so on, at least for the time being, I can't quite reach fourth level contingencies.

Well, unless I use Su abilities.

Hey, I know you've been dogpiled here, but, this was an honest question actually. I am not a book collector and I have no idea how you would actually raise your class level. AFAIK, there's nothing in core that does that. So, please answer the question in the spirit it was asked - an honest question, not some attempt to trap you.