Can a GM cheat?

[dead]

In general, I say no.

If you cheat, then you are breaking that trust that your players have in you (even if you get away with it without them noticing!). Your players are expecting that you roll honestly and even if that means the death of their PC due to the whim of the dice they will respect you more for this than for fudging the roll and giving them a break.

I don't cheat when I GM, but then again, I've never got myself into a situation where all the PCs are going to die. An inexperienced GM may have more of a tendency to accidentally do this.

If I had to "cheat", then it wouldn't be fudging the dice rolls, I'd probably have an NPC step in and save the PCs or something. But even then, this can irrate players if they are "let off the hook" all the time. Players want to feel that their PC's lives are threatened and that death is a very real possibility. One of the great things about RPGs is that they're not exactly stories; they're also a simulation of life's randomness. In a story the author can have his hero get out of all sorts of scrapes, but in an RPG this isn't necessarily the case.

What are other people's thoughts?

 

[DragonLancer]

Well, the DM can choose to cheat if he/she so chooses, in both good and bad ways.

I would say that no, a DM should not cheat during the game and let the dice fall where they may. However, I am aware that some feel that the game should be fun and that may mean fudging the dice rolls to make things more enjoyable.

 

[Crothian]

yes

its rare, but if the DM alters things mid game so he "wins" its cheating.

 

[Avouz]

yes

its rare, but if the DM alters things mid game so he "wins" its cheating.

Agreed. I will often fudge rolls and alter things when I DM, but always with the intent of keeping the game fun for the players. If in a very climactic scene, the party whacks the big bad with one shot, I fudge his hit points/save/whatever to keep things interesting. By the same token, I'm just as likely to do the same if it's a PC who get in trouble (through no fault of their own anyway. If they do something stupid, they're on their own.)

Nothing worse in a roleplaying game than the anti-climactic ending. I know when it happens when I'm a player, I feel cheated because it was too easy. "I fought through all that for this?"

 

[drunkmoogle]

What crothian said, plus:

If a GM is using published feats/spells/classes/etc. in some book, and doesn't allow the players to peruse/use the source material, he is cheating the players.

If he goes against campaign precedence mid-game without explaining it, he is cheating the players.

I guess you could say I view fudging through a pro-choice POV: I don't do it, I wouldn't do it, but I won't stop other GMs from doing it.

All IMO.

 

[Squire James]

I disagree that using classes/feats/etc that the PC's can't use is always cheating. For instance, I consider it okay for the PC's to meet Oriental Adventures NPC's even if I don't allow OA PC's. If said NPC's become common, however, I should consider allowing PC's to create them.

If the DM cheats, he had better do so in a way that increases the fun of the game, or those trust issues rear their ugly hydra heads. A poorly-executed cheat can raise such issues even if the DM did it with the intention to make the game more fun. Therefore, it is a bad idea to cheat unless the DM is pretty confident that it will enhance the game in some fashion.

 

[Umbran]

A DM can cheat - by taking an adversarial mindset and then breaking the rules so that his side wins.

However - if the DM breaks the rules for purposes of giving the players a better time, telling a story more interesting and more compelling for the players, that's not cheating. That's doing his job.

The rules are guidelines - they are there to help the DM provide a fun and interesting game. But following the rules is not the only, or even always the best, way to provide a good game.

 

[milotha]

Is it really cheating if the GM alters the saves, hitpoints, BAB of the opponets? I mean the GM made them up to begin with, how is it cheating if they alter it in mid game instead of between sessions?

Its a game, not a reality simulator. Yes, things are fixed in reality, but in a game they are more fluid. There's plenty of regions on the map not written down to the last hit point, stat, gold piece, and description. Is it cheating if the GM makes this stuff up on the fly?

Really, if the GM can use cheating to increase the fun of the game and to increase the excitement and interest for the players, then feel free to change things on the fly. So, if changing the HP of the monsters makes the combat more climatic then do so. If dropping the hitpoints allows the PCs to survive by a hairsbreadth after they used good tactics, then why not?

 

[dead]

What if your players knew you were cheating (or "doing your job" by fudging rolls, etc.)? Would they not feel disappointed? Would they not feel more like the GM's puppets than player characters?

 

[MDSnowman]

I think its all a matter of degrees...

...If you fudge one or two rolls to keep an important villain (and therefore a link to the plot) alive, it's not cheating... you're doing your job. It's simple rule Zero in cases like this. You're keeping the story moving... it's fine by me. But at some point you have to stop fudging... once I had a pair of heroes who were about to slay a Wizard villain I had, and they unloaded on him (easily killing him, but I ruled that he made his save vs. a fireball and poof still alive) before he dimension doored back to his room to get his stuff and run for the hills. The heroes made a bee-line for his chambers and caught him shoving magical equipment in a bag... the illusionist hero didn't have any combat spells left so he did the only thing he could... he sicced his Familar, a Raven named El Gato (I know it makes no sense to me either) on him and did one point of damage. That's when I realized that the heroes worked their ass off for this kill... so I ruled that was enough to slow him down for the barbarian to bring him down.

...of course I messed up and put too much crap in that sack when the heroes yoinked it, but that's another thread.

It becomes cheating when you're fuding rolls left and right to rail road your players at every turn. When I was much younger (and my attention span was non existent) and I got bored with a game I sent something without stats against the heroes and had it call them all. THAT is cheating, and I regret doing it with every fiber of my being. The heroes didn't have a chance, and the one with the good sense to run for his life conviently tripped over a tree root and ended up dying looking pathetic.