Can a human do this?

[jasin]

In addition to being a DM for over 25 years, I am also an official judge from the Magic the Gathering game. I have a tendency now to also view things in the order in which things are done. I see the game going in order that they appear in the book. So pick an at-will power first. There isn’t a list to choose from so the game goes on to the next step. You chose a bonus feat. If you chose a non-multiclassing feat the game stops for a second to back track and see if there are any at-will powers to choose from. There aren’t, so you move on to the next step, picking a bonus skill.

In the case of a human taking a multiclass feat, they now have a class to choose an at-will from the next time the game pauses.

So in fact it doesn't go in the order it appears in the book, but backtracks to recheck previous steps after each next step?

I feel that humans should have an edge in multiclassing anyway.

How is being a human relevant for this, actually? If taking a multiclass feat gives you access to the second class's list for the purposes of picking a human extra At-Will (which, following the order, should happen before picking the feat, right?), wouldn't it also give you access to the list for the purposes of picking the two At-Wills that everyone gets? And the one encounter and daily that everyone gets? And all other powers you get at subsequent levels?

But it doesn't "give you access", it does what it says it does: gives you a skill and a minor benefit, and makes you count as a member of the class for the purposes of feats and paragon paths.

 

[DM-Rocco]

So in fact it doesn't go in the order it appears in the book, but backtracks to recheck previous steps after each next step?


How is being a human relevant for this, actually? If taking a multiclass feat gives you access to the second class's list for the purposes of picking a human extra At-Will (which, following the order, should happen before picking the feat, right?), wouldn't it also give you access to the list for the purposes of picking the two At-Wills that everyone gets? And the one encounter and daily that everyone gets? And all other powers you get at subsequent levels?

But it doesn't "give you access", it does what it says it does: gives you a skill and a minor benefit, and makes you count as a member of the class for the purposes of feats and paragon paths.

Which is all fine, but I changed the original question from can a human do this to would you allow a human to do this, so throw the rules out and speak in house rules.

 

[Mort]

Which is all fine, but I changed the original question from can a human do this to would you allow a human to do this, so throw the rules out and speak in house rules.

I don't think so. As pointed out earlier, what you're doing is giving the human the half elf ability - but better. Humans are pretty good as is and don't need the extra boost.

 

[MortalPlague]

No. No, no, no. The people on this board are usually pretty sensible when it comes to rules questions like this, I'm surprised this has slipped through.

Consider this: I roll up a human fighter, and take arcane initiate. Let's say I pick up Cleave, Reaping Strike and... Scorching Burst. I'll put my secondary score in intelligence. All of a sudden I can mark up to 9 creatures every round. All of a sudden I am just as good as any wizard at mopping up minions.

Letting the human pick from another class list is not allowed by the RAW for good reason. If you want to allow it in your game, well, that's your choice. But DM beware.

 

[monboesen]

would you allow a human to do this?

Still a resounding NO!.

 

[Dausuul]

It is clearly not legal by the rules as written. Multiclassing qualifies you for feats and paragon paths, nothing more. Despite the name, you still have only one class, not two; nobody in 4E has two classes. Multiclass feats just let you pick a few apples from another class's orchard.

I would say it is also not legal by the rules as intended. The fact that you have to work for ten levels and give up your paragon path before you can get another class's at-will strongly suggests to me that the designers had no intention of letting humans do it at first level with a single feat.

Finally, and most importantly, it offers too much potential for abuse, and makes humans too powerful.

So, in conclusion, I say no, I would not allow it.

 

[mach1.9pants]

If one of my players came with a good roleplaying reason and wanted to do this I would probably say 'yea'. In fact I would say yes, we are not competing against each other and it won't make him that more powerful. We have a party of 4 and a bit of extra versatility would be good (I don't scale back the module encounter creatures for 'em). I would expect him to make multiclassing a facet of his character (i.e. not just take the one feat) otherwise but I would not expect him to do paragon mc unless he wanted. I would check the PC he created and see I was happy, but I am a 4E YES DM

So RAW no way, but I would allow it IMC

 

[DM-Rocco]

Well, thanks for the feed back. This is how I gather info. I think when I start a new campaign as a DM I would allow it. I heard some good arguements against but I don't feel it is abusive. Maybe the fighter throwing a SB and marking up to ten people, but after 1 one that goes away so not that bad, but maybe I will watch out for that.

Thanks