Can Air Elementals attack ten times a round in whirlwind form?

[StreamOfTheSky]

The spell description for Wall of Fire just says "the wall deals 2d6 points of fire damage +1 point of fire damage per caster level (maximum +20) to any creature passing through it." If you pass through three times, I think you would take damage three times.

If you passed through it once, you've passed through the wall and take 2d6 +1/CL damage. If you passed through it 8 times, you've passed through the wall and take 2d6 +1/CL damage. I understand the logic you're trying to apply, but couldn't I also say, "Nowhere does it say I take 16d6 +8/CL damage! I passed through it, I take 2d6 +1/CL, as the text explains."

Ultimately, it comes down to common sense and game balance, especially the former. Yes, the rules often defy common sense, but that doesn't mean it should be tossed aside when it's a viable explanation.

 

[Noumenon]

I tried Google for another perspective and found a thread about Air Elementals here (scroll down). These people didn't object to the 200-movement repeat-o-whirlwind tactic. They even pointed out several things I didn't notice because my air elemental was trapped in a 10-foot-high room.

* After catching you up, the air elemental can fly straight up for 200 feet and eject you
* If it wants to try dealing you 2d6 again and again instead of catching you up, it can eject you and try again
* When it ejects you, you land prone
* At the end of its move, it can move 20 feet up so you can't reach it
* When you're in the whirlwind, besides the -2 to hit and 5 DR the Air Mastery should give you another -1 to hit and damage.

This monster seems about five times as capable as most opponents of its CR.

 

[Hypersmurf]

If you passed through it once, you've passed through the wall and take 2d6 +1/CL damage. If you passed through it 8 times, you've passed through the wall and take 2d6 +1/CL damage.

So when do you feel the damage is incurred? The first time you pass through? After the last time you pass through?

If I pass through the wall once this round, and once next round, do I take 2d6+X damage once, or twice?

-Hyp.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

So when do you feel the damage is incurred? The first time you pass through? After the last time you pass through?

If I pass through the wall once this round, and once next round, do I take 2d6+X damage once, or twice?

-Hyp.

Damage is usually dealt the moment the attack/effect reaches the victim, so I'd say you take the damage the moment you first enter the wall of fire. You'd then take the damage again the start of next round if still inside it, and so on. Basically you'd suffer it once per round.

And yeah, I know that's not RAW and it can be interpreted like other people are saying, but I think my interpretation is RAI, and if not, at least more balanced. I find going by the latter two more important than the former. I mean, aren't there all kinds of stupid interpretations if you go strictly RAW? I remember something about what being "dead" does and doesn't explicitly state...

 

[Jhaelen]

I mean, aren't there all kinds of stupid interpretations if you go strictly RAW?

Absolutely! Blindly applying RAW without at least considering for a moment what might have been RAI is about the worst thing you can do when trying to play the game. YMMV.

 

[Runestar]

Well, if anything, elementals seem quite pitifully weak for their cr (in part due to their low damage output). This "RAW" interpretation seems to boost them in line with what a cr11 foe ought to be capable of.

Can't believe I never thought of having the air elemental fly straight up before ejecting the PC. Definitely must give it a try some day...

 

[Noumenon]

DYou'd then take the damage again the start of next round if still inside it, and so on.

Now I understand your position. Why should you take more damage from passing through multiple times than just standing inside it? You might say standing inside it ought to do more damage than just passing through, and the DM should make his ruling there. But if actually catching on fire does only 1d6 per round, why should standing in the fire do so much more?

Still, it seems like the point of a "wall" of fire is to encourage characters not to cross it, and crossing a real-life wall of fire would deal you more damage every time, so the change I'd make is adding more damage for standing in the wall of fire, not reducing the damage for crossing it.

 

[Noumenon]

Well, if anything, elementals seem quite pitifully weak for their cr (in part due to their low damage output). This "RAW" interpretation seems to boost them in line with what a cr11 foe ought to be capable of.

The whirlwind ability might be fine for CR11 (an Elder Huge air elemental), but it's nearly identical for a Large air elemental (CR5) except for the save. Since we can work around the save by exposing a character 10-20 times a round, what you essentially have is a CR5 creature with a CR11 ability.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

If I was playing in a game where the DM had an air elemental move back and forth 20 times in a round, and then had the audacity to try and point to the RAW, that would be the last game I ever played with that DM.

Period.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

If I was playing in a game where the DM had an air elemental move back and forth 20 times in a round, and then had the audacity to try and point to the RAW, that would be the last game I ever played with that DM.

Period.

Either that, or play a Druid. Summon nothing but air elementals, use the CM variant for an elemental (air) companion, take the reserve feat to continuously summon air elementals, and talk about how awesome it'll be once you can wildshape into one yourself. After the ensuing arguments, tell him he deserves it for pulling that crap on you, and THEN quit.

Then again, I can be combative when angry.