Can any comic fans fill me in on current Marvel continuity?

[Cthulhudrew]

Seriously though...symbiote characters were my favorite, and I collected the comics they were in...the last I saw of Venom and Carnage was the four-part Venom/Carnage miniseries from a while back. Can anyone give me issue numbers for when the above happened? I'm specifically interested in everything leading up to the death of Carnage, and specifically when Eddie lost the symbiote (since there's still wiggle room to say he's still alive).

To add to the symbiote discussion, there is currently a third symbiote running around the MU, named Toxin. It's the child of either Venom or Carnage (I forget which, though I think it's Venoms).

Toxin is bonded to a former police officer, and from what I understand, they have a sort of Jekyll/Hyde kind of relationship- the officer uses the suit to do good, but struggles with the symbiote's more carnal tendencies.

There are two Toxin mini-series- one which introduced the character, and is complete, and another one currently on its first or second issue.

 

[Alzrius]

To add to the symbiote discussion, there is currently a third symbiote running around the MU, named Toxin. It's the child of either Venom or Carnage (I forget which, though I think it's Venoms).

Toxin is bonded to a former police officer, and from what I understand, they have a sort of Jekyll/Hyde kind of relationship- the officer uses the suit to do good, but struggles with the symbiote's more carnal tendencies.

There are two Toxin mini-series- one which introduced the character, and is complete, and another one currently on its first or second issue.

I remember that character. Toxin was born during the Venom/Carnage four-issue mini-series I mentioned. As you noted, the second series with him is still ongoing.

Whatever happened to the other symbiotes? From what I understand, two of them survived the events of Venom: Lethal Protector and Venom: Separation Anxiety, but one of them died in Venom: The Hunted, meaning one of them (one of the female symbiotes) is still out there, or so I thought.

Likewise, what happened to Hybrid, the guy who gained four symbiotes after the Invasion of the Symbiotes affair?

 

[The_lurkeR]

Wow... things have changed alot since collected comics

 

[Klaus]

I wouldn't say the policy's terribly different over at DC.

Just ask the Blue Beetle.

From a Blue Beetle fan: at least they gave Ted his best story ever before he went the way of the dodo.

 

[Dragonblade]

I remember that character. Toxin was born during the Venom/Carnage four-issue mini-series I mentioned. As you noted, the second series with him is still ongoing.

Whatever happened to the other symbiotes? From what I understand, two of them survived the events of Venom: Lethal Protector and Venom: Separation Anxiety, but one of them died in Venom: The Hunted, meaning one of them (one of the female symbiotes) is still out there, or so I thought.

Likewise, what happened to Hybrid, the guy who gained four symbiotes after the Invasion of the Symbiotes affair?

Carnage's symbiote actually died a while ago. However, before it died, it mutated Kasady's body to be able to generate a faux symbiote that grants him all the powers of the original but without the second intelligence.

Although hearing the news about Venom "selling" his symbiote makes no sense. The symbiote is bonded to him and cannot be separated from him without dying. Unless they changed the way the symbiotes function. :\

I'm not sure I agree with all the MU changes. Cyclops cheating on Jean? I would never buy that. And Captain America quitting government service over 9/11? I certainly don't buy that. Thats just the comic writers imposing their personal beliefs on his character so they can make a political statement.

 

[Cthulhudrew]

Although hearing the news about Venom "selling" his symbiote makes no sense. The symbiote is bonded to him and cannot be separated from him without dying. Unless they changed the way the symbiotes function. :\

Don't know the specifics, but there was a recent Venom series (another one?!?!?) wherein the symbiote was found in an arctic base, and eventually made its way back to civilization. The symbiote had been acting independent of Brock since Brock's cancer revelation (which was revealed, I think, in an issue or two of one of the Spidey titles- probably the now cancelled Spectacular). Seems it didn't like Brock having cancer. At the end of that Venom series, though, I'm pretty sure the two were bonded once again.

Which makes the idea of him selling the suit all the more ridiculous, but there you have it. I'm pretty sure Mark Millar wrote the issues of Spider-Man where Brock sells the suit and Gargan gets it. Pretty par for the course with Millar, as far as I'm concerned. I don't like the guy's writing, but there are a lot of people who do.

I'm not sure I agree with all the MU changes. Cyclops cheating on Jean? I would never buy that.

I agree- although, to be fair, it was only cheating mentally, and even married people have fantasies about others, I would assume. Kind of blurs the line a bit when you consider this is a world with telepaths (such as Emma, who Scott "cheated" with), but I think that makes for a very interesting story... which surprises me, actually, as I've never actually liked much of Grant Morrison's writing.

Then again, Cyclops has been such a poorly written character at times- witness his running out on wife and child when he finds out his ex-lover is returned to life, and not checking in with them again for, oh, several years (and not telling Jean about Maddie and Nathan, either. Tsk, tsk.)

I've always loved Cyclops, mostly due to Claremont's writing of him (pre-X-Factor), but the guy's been treated badly by his writers (even Claremont; again, X-Factor), and so it's not entirely inconsistent with his inconsistent writing.

And Captain America quitting government service over 9/11? I certainly don't buy that. Thats just the comic writers imposing their personal beliefs on his character so they can make a political statement.

Not exactly sure about this. The last I read Cap on any regular basis was during John Ney Reiber's run, when he abandoned his secret ID. That happened right around 9/11, and I don't remember him quitting government service. He hadn't actually been a government operative, strictly speaking, in years- only occasionally working for the gov't or SHIELD, purely on what could be considered a freelance basis, due to his patriotism. His role with the US government was the subject of the whole John Walker/Captain America storyline in Cap under Gruenwald, though it's doubtless been touched on elsewhere.

If he did do something like you describe, I agree that it's out of character. Unless there was some kind of hard evidence provided in the MU comics that showed that agents of the government were involved in 9/11, I don't see Cap throwing away his patriotism so casually. I'm not sure of the specifics of the story you're talking about, though.

 

[Alzrius]

Carnage's symbiote actually died a while ago. However, before it died, it mutated Kasady's body to be able to generate a faux symbiote that grants him all the powers of the original but without the second intelligence.

I just bought and read New Avengers #1 and #2 today (thanks stevelabny!)...so that's why they said his suit was vampiric. Do you know what issues the whole "death and faux symbiote" thing are in? I want to get those. (For that matter, what were the issues where Carnage got the Silver Surfer's powers?)

Although hearing the news about Venom "selling" his symbiote makes no sense. The symbiote is bonded to him and cannot be separated from him without dying. Unless they changed the way the symbiotes function. :\

This hasn't been true in a very long time. Even way back in Venom: Lethal Protector they showed that Eddie can have his symbiote removed from him. Unlike Carnage's, it's purely an external covering, their bond is psychic, dependant on physical contact. People can (and have) removed the symbiote, which causes mental trauma for both of them, but no permanent damage.

Don't know the specifics, but there was a recent Venom series (another one?!?!?) wherein the symbiote was found in an arctic base, and eventually made its way back to civilization. The symbiote had been acting independent of Brock since Brock's cancer revelation (which was revealed, I think, in an issue or two of one of the Spidey titles- probably the now cancelled Spectacular). Seems it didn't like Brock having cancer. At the end of that Venom series, though, I'm pretty sure the two were bonded once again.

That series was good, but as far as I know ended with a somewhat-dangling plot thread.

What had happened was that a piece of Venom's symbiote had severed, and this guy named Bob, who turned out to be some sort of extremely high-ranking member of S.H.I.E.L.D. (much higher than Nick Fury) was studying it, and deliberately released it into civilization once the severed piece regenerated into a full symbiote.

As far as Brock's cancer goes...as I recall, his cancer made his brain hyper-produce adrenaline, which has the chemical the symbiote feeds off of. At the end of the series where that was revealed, IIRC, the symbiote said it still wanted Parker, because it was getting ready to reproduce again, and because being with Brock was painful, since it felt the pain from his cancer.

 

[Vigilance]

There's a Marvel continuity? Really?

(Sorry, I'm a bitter Marvel Zombie who dislikes the "No Continuity" strategem that has been more or less in place since Quesada took over as EIC. Continuity can be a pain, yes, and it has gotten out of hand at times at Marvel, but there are writers who demonstrate that it can be handled in a very efficient and non-disruptive manner- Dan Slott, Christopher Priest, Kurt Busiek, Fabian Nicieza...)

Like it or not, there's a good chance that Quesada's no continuity policy saved Marvel.

When Marvel began to realize under Jim Shooter that the size of their market was trending downward from its height under Lee and Kirby, and was not likely to grow back to that market size anytime soon, they realized they needed more titles to survive and that they needed more creative people (writers and artists) to make those titles.

In an attempt to maintain continuity, the editors ended up running the show at Marvel. Claremont left because of it and claimed he was never coming back. In fact he never DID come back... until the no continuity policy was in place.

Several other writers I respected either quit the industry altogether over this issue or went to DC and many of those writers have never come back.

I also read that no continuity contributed in the recruitment of outside talent like Grant Morrison. His New X-Men comic was WAY different than the other X-books.

Something else that Marvel discovered through market research is that most of their customers weren't GOING to read everything anymore. Marvel had expanded titles to the range that people who could afford to buy every issue of everything were few.

On top of curing the problems listed above, Marvel has also used the no continuity policy to its benefit in other ways. Lots of people (some of whom have posted to this thread) have bought Marvel titles solely for the high profile creators they have lured to write them: JMS, Kevin Smith, Joss Whedon.

No continuity is a selling point for these creators. In fact some of them would never have worked for Marvel without this policy. For someone like Kevin Smith or Joss Whedon, comics is a fun side job. They like the medium and have a story to tell. If some editor says "well due to the events in FF #234 where Kang and Negative Zone sucked Colossus into a portable hole you cant..." these people are going to say "sorry, could have been fun, I dont have time for this- Im going to make a movie".

No continuity also makes these "event titles" Joss Whedon and Kevin Smith do accessible to people who have never read a comic before. They also make it easier for those casual readers to pick up all of Smith's titles "a la carte".

Dont get me wrong, I miss tight continuity too at times. But anything that gets Chris Claremont and Grant Morrison writing X-men titles is something I am willing to live with. I also think it has done more harm than good for Marvel overall.

Last point on this topic: If you like tight continuity, I would read the Ultimate books. I have subscribed to Spider Man and X-men and Ultimates from the beginning, as well as picking up the side titles (Marvel Team Up, Daredevil etc) and the Ultimate universe seems to have tight continuity since there's only a few titles largely written by only three writers.

Also the "Bendiverse", those titles written by Bendis seems to have a tight continuity as well.

So there are options out there, for those who must have continuity, and folks like me, who frankly dont seem to care.

 

[stevelabny]

Vigilance. I'm not sure where you got that information but I know some of it isn't true. And I doubt other parts of it.

I don't recall "continuity" having anything to do with Claremont leaving. Especially since his run on X-Men was so long that most of the existing continuity was his own. Claremont left X-Men at the time the future-Image artists started taking over Marvel. As the editors started to cater to the artists (the perceived reason for sales), many writers bailed. Also, many writers didn't like the way editors were completeling controlling the books, or shoe-horning crossovers in every 3 months so that you can not tell a story.
Leaving because the artists had become the favored children, and they felt a lack of respect or because the artists were asking for more story-control and the writers felt useless has NOTHING to do with continuity
Leaving because of tight editorial control, and/or the vast amount of forced crossovers is NOT the same as leaving because of cntinuity.

As bad as Grant Morrison's X-men was, it didn't completely ignore all continuity. It just had characters acting stupidly and one or two bits thrown out the window. But hey, he did the same things in JLA, in some cases reverting previous-continuity-changes back to how they used to be without any explanation either. (J'onn's weakness to fire). But in both cases they did try to have their cake and eat it too, as the books were meant to stay in continuity.

Marvel did market research? When? Where? I was a die-hard comic reader from the mid 80s to 2002. Read everything and kept track of everything. Don't recall any market research.

JMS, Kevin Smith and Whedon are part of the no continuity package? WHAT?
Kevin Smith's Daredevil was totally in continuity and referred back to many old stories. (Also, his Green Arrow for DC also had a lot of nods to various older titles).
Joss picked up where Morrison left off. He brought Kitty back to the team, and brought Colossus back from the dead. If this was a continuity-ignore, why would they need to acknowledge that Colossus was dead and come up with a convoluted "how he survived" story? (To match your example "due to issue X, Colossus sacrificed himself to save the world from the Legacy Virus, and then he was cremated so you can't use him......unless you come up with a way to uncremate him) Also, Whedon has always shown to be a FAN of continuity. Try watching any of his shows.
I don't remember if the de-aging of Spidey started with JMS or before, but its also very hard to get to the truth of whether stupid ideas like that come from editorial or the writers. Doesn't much matter anyway as JMS made Spidey a teacher, and has his ex-gf have kids who are now full-grown. Which still makes Spidey look old. (Even if they gave the standard speed-aging excuse to the kids)
So I really have to say that these big names only show up because of a lack of continuity ISN'T true. at all.

No continuity implies that you can completely ignore all of what has gone before and do whatever you want. Kind of like what the Ultimate U started as. A blank slate. None of the major titles in the MU are like that. (although things like the new Power Pack and possibly the new New Warriors)

Also, this continued misinformation about the continuity of the ULT U is a joke. You just said it has tight continuity, while many say they want to read it because it has no continuity. HA.

To disprove the tight continuity... How come the Fantastic Four that appeared in Ultimate Marvel Team-Up is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT that the Fantastic Four that appears in Ultimate Fantastic Four.
And if you try to shoe-horn the ULT FF into the past, you have a problem because the FF refer to the Ultimates in early issues.
This is a brand-new Universe with 3 monthly titles and a few mini-series. And they can't even keep their continuity straight.

Also, suggesting the ULT U for someone who wants the continuity of the MU isn't something I would do. There is no attachment to any of the characters. And at least the MU has had SOME evolution over the last 40 years. The ULT U is not a suitable replacement.

What "saved" Marvel? Well, the movies saved them from bankruptcy. And have attracted the "Hollywood" writers to the books.
But Marvel isnt saved. Marvel continues to fall apart weekly. Curent editorial policies are all short-term. And from what I've seen, House of M is getting pretty bad word of mouth.

DC actual won the unit sales and dollar sales battle last month. For the first time in a long time.
Because DC has been trying to keep a tighter more meaningful interconnectedness and continuity.
Because DC has "Marvel-ized" themselves while Marvel has bastardized themselves.
Because Geoff Johns and others have made the "big-7" JLA interesting for the first time (although oddly enough, it didnt actually seep into the JLA book until last issue) , while Bendis is absolutely destroying the Avengers.

If Marvel as a comics company has been saved, they better get unsaved in a hurry.

 

[Viking Bastard]

Also, this continued misinformation about the continuity of the ULT U is a joke. You just said it has tight continuity, while many say they want to read it because it has no continuity. HA.

'No back continuity' is not the same as 'no inter-continuity'. Despite the FF -up, the
UMU has much tighter inter-continuity than the regular MU currently. It simply lacks the
back contiuity. It will, and has, created it's own back continuity but one wastly smaller
than the MU one. That is it's selling point. Little continuity, not loose continuity.

Current DCU policy on the other hand has found a way to eat the cake and have it too.
While inter-continuity is the big thing over at DC now, they are very loose on back
continuity (well, except Geoff Johns' titles, of course, but he's a bit anal about these
things). They have mastered the art of tieing up loose ends and then ignoring them,
instead focusing on the more archetypical and iconic image of their heroes. Tell a story,
end it, then start a new story ignoring the old story except for a few cosmetic differences.

The previous story might have happened, it might not have. It's all hypertime, baby.

It's the same strategy that saved the Spider-Man titles. They just ended the 90s plotlines
and then they never, ever mentioned them again. "Green Goblin is back and Peter and
MJ are seperated. They just are, we'll never explain why. Now, for some good Spider-Man
stuff! Someone, what's that B5 guy's number, again?"

This allows for continuity light stories while still keeping open the door for old ideas to be
brought back. It's the Classic DC style meets the Marvel Shared Universe style. Best of
both worlds.

Marvel, on the other hand, is more in tune with it's back continuity, even though not as
obsessed with it as before. They have instead forsaken the inter-title continuity for a more
single-story-centered approach.