Can anyone write Cthulhu Mythos material?

[Alzrius]

We all know about how, when TSR put out the original Deities and Demigods book, they got in trouble with Chaosium for printing material about the Cthulhu (and Melnibonean) Mythos. Apparently - while the copyright of the actual Lovecraft stories is in doubt - only they were allowed to write Mythos material for RPGs.

However, recently Paizo has been printing Cthulhu-related material in Pathfinder (and even sporadically in Dungeon before that), apparently without any complaints from the Chaosium people. Hence, is it now alright for any third-party company to write material with, about, or otherwise having to do with (elements of) the Cthulhu Mythos?

 

[Baron Opal]

The copyright date has long since expired on any of Lovecraft's work, I should think. You can make any kind of game about it if anyone can print a collection of his stories.

And, if you want to throw down, all you have to do is take Chaosium up on any legal challenge they make. I would be surprised if they have the money to sue. You just have to make sure it is in a different system.

 

[frankthedm]

Depends what you use and who you ask. Some folks will argue all of the HPL material is fair use. BUT that's only the HPL material. Individual authors that wrote on in the mythos may easily fall under their own rights and Chaosium can lay claim to anything they expounded on themselves.

Chambers "yellow sign" stuff predates even HPL's works so it has a great chance of lying in public domain.

 

[Alzrius]

The copyright date has long since expired on any of Lovecraft's work, I should think.

I'm no lawyer; my understanding of copyright comes from a class I recently finished having spent some time on it. In regards to the copyright status of Lovecraft's work, I point you to the Wikipedia section on that topic. It has a single paragraph regarding the Mythos in RPGS:

Chaosium, publishers of the Call of Cthulhu role-playing game, have a trademark on several Lovecraftian phrases and creations, including "The Call of Cthulhu", for use in game products. Another RPG publisher, TSR, Inc., original publisher of Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, included in one of that game's earlier supplements, Deities & Demigods (originally published in 1980 and later renamed to "Legends & Lore"), a section on the Cthulhu Mythos; TSR, Inc. later agreed to remove this section from subsequent editions because of Chaosium's intellectual property interests in the work.

 

[evilref]

Yes...and no.

Some Mythos material is in the public domain (almost everything by Lovecraft is in, albeit this has never seen a legal challenge to confirm this and there is some controversy over it relating to Derleth).

Some is assuredly in the public domain in some countries and less clear in others (different countries apply rights after death differently).

Some rights are held by Arkham House and Chaosium (the latter has a trademark on the phrase 'The Call of Cthulhu).

Some is copyright by individual authors or their trusts and/or publishers (Lovecraft wasn't the only person to write in the Mythos as he positively encouraged other writers to contribute to the general mythology of his works).


Cthulhu-related doesn't automatically mean they're in breach or not as even if they were inspired by a particular Mythos element that isn't in the public domain, they could still not be in breach depending on what was actually put in the book.

Note, if you're asking out of anything more than curiosity then I'd strongly suggest contacting an IP lawyer (ideally one who specialises in literary rights). While the bulk of the mythos material's rights are relatively simple (certainly compared to something such as conan, which is both in, and not in, the public domain and has yet to be resolved in a court) there are some curve balls there which could trip someone up.

 

[Brown Jenkin]

To expand further, the reason that many Lovecraft works (not other authers, look up each individually) are now being used more freely is that last year many of the disputed copyrights aged into public domain. There are still some in dispute depending on whether they were done under contract or not and whether they were registered or not since there is a different time frame on those. Even with these, anything before 1923 is public domain. Trademarks however do not expire and Chaosium does own a very limited number of these.

 

[demiurge1138]

Also, note that Cthulhu himself isn't one of the Mythos elements in Pathfinder. And Pathfinder's sure to put in little sidebars telling people to check out Chaosium products if they want more Mythos gaming goodness. I'm sure that goes a long way towards smoothing any ruffled feathers with Chaosium.

 

[WayneLigon]

I think there are often different rights for different media, and much of Chaosium's rights devolve, if I remember correctly, from Arkham House. They're licensed to produce Cthulhu material for gaming, so they might have rights in the gaming arena for the use of certain beast, phrases, etc. Any RPG game material probably has to pass through them though I think if someone had the money to withstand a test case, they'd win based on how generic it's become.

As far as Cthulhu-esque beasts, and themes, almost anyone can use those. It's become such a universal meme in the last 20 years that it's entered common usage. Look at the first Hellboy movie, for example.

As far as novels and short fiction, anyone can write a Mythos story. Every major horror writer and most minor ones have at least one Mythos reference in some work they've done and a whole lot of them have done so for many years. I'd say that if anyone wanted to make a stink about it, Lovecraft and his fellow Inklings so poisoned those rights by borrowing and re-borrowing back and forth that it would be impossible to enforce.

 

[Shemeska]

While the vast majority of HPL's work is long since reverted to public domain, as I recall, there are a handful of stories that Lovecraft ghostwrote, or revised/rewrote for other authors that have their individual copyright as defaulted back to that original author/client or their heirs. Only a scant few stories still have active copyright holders from that pool of revisions and such, but I don't recall off the top of my head which ones they were.

Of course, I don't know how much you could use certain elements from them in game material or fiction as an homage without getting into problems (if anyone still cared, which I really doubt).

And for the sake of humanity, if you do anything mythos related, keep Derleth's stuff out of it. Ugg.

 

[CountPopeula]

As has been mentioned, it's a big, muddled mess. Since Call of Cthulhu is in the public domain pretty much everywhere on earth, you could reprint the story or use any aspect of it in pretty much any way you'd like. But since "The Call of Cthulhu" is trademarked, you couldn't call it "The Call of Cthulhu." At least not externally.

Arkham and Chaosium are very likely exerting rights over Lovecraft's work they don't actually own. Since The Call of Cthulhu (the story) is in the public domain, that means exactly that. It doesn't mean "public domain, except for RPGs." Public domain makes no exceptions.

However, much like the Wizard of Oz, only the earlier and not the later parts of Lovecraft's mythos writings are in the public domain. So if you used something from a later book, that would still be (and will all ways be) under copyright (in the United States). So while I don't think anyone could claim a copyright to Cthulhu or his likeness, if you included things from later works of Lovecraft, that would be infringing.

Also, since trademarks don't expire, a lot of companies will trademark things that should be in the public domain to keep them out. Like when Disney's movies go into the public domain, they've trademarked the likenesses of their characters to keep people from using them. It's much more costly and time-consuming than creating new intellectual properties, but that's what it takes to live off the creativity of others rather than your own.