can Blinding Barrage blind a swarm?

[Dracorat]

Swarm [Keyword]: A swarm is considered a single monster even though it is composed of several Tiny creatures. Most single swarms are Medium, but some can be larger.

For most abilities, you can take that as you want, to rule either way, IMO.

As for Blinding Barrage however, it's a blast, so automatically affects everything in the target squares.

And for what it's worth, I never pictured Blinding to actually use the normal ammo for weapon it says you must be holding. I imagine you're able to quickly load chaff in to the weapon, or something similar. It's the only thing that makes sense to me in the case of a weapon that normally is only one projectile.

I guess in the case of a regular ranged thrown weapon, you become Xena, Warrior Princess for a moment. Make sure to go "lu lu lu lu" as you throw the weapon. (And pick it back up since it doesn't return, as Hyp pointed out.)

 

[Bumamgar]

With Blinding Barrage, the rules in the PHB don't permit it - the PHB states that magical thrown weapons return after a ranged attack, and Blinding Barrage is not a ranged attack.

-Hyp.

Actually, it works just fine according to Custserv... see: 4E Customer Service Answers - ENWiki

Light Thrown Weapons and Powers

Q: Rogue area attack powers such as Blinding Barrage work with the crossbow, sling, or light thrown weapons. Sling and hand crossbow are "Load Free". Normal crossbow is not. p217 says "If a power allows you to hit multiple targets, the additional load time is accounted for in the power." This doesn't appear to apply to light throwing weapons. If shuriken or daggers are used with Blinding Barrage, are they limited by the requirement to use a minor action to draw each item, making Quick Draw a necessity to use these items with this type of power?

A: If you are using a Magic throwing weapon, it will hit all the targets and return to your hand (yeah Magic is that awesome). If you are using mundane throwing weapons, you will need one for each attack roll made and you will need three Quick draw feat to be able to draw and use them all.

 

[Black Knight Irios]

Oh wow!

What an awesome answer -- makes your life easy.

I wonder on which rules that ruling is based but I'll probably go withit for ease of use.



And you need three Quick Draw feats if you're using mundane weapons, man I imagine some really quick drawing there...


So if this answer is awesome and magic is awesome and custserv gave the answer is custserv magic?

I like your descriptive text, Black Knight Idios, I think I'll riff off that.

I'm happy that you like it.
Giving rules flavor so that they make sense is quite something that must be done (every now and then...).

 

[Mengu]

If you can knock down a gelatinous cube with a hammer, you can do anything. Blinding an ant swarm with a shuriken does not seem any different.

I try to think of conditions as some sort of penalty, and not necessarily the words literally used to describe it. Blindness has a set of penalties associated with it. That's what the swarm suffers when they are hit by Blinding Barrage.

So, my general principle is rules are rules, fluff is made on the fly.

 

[LostSoul]

How about this:

"I focus in one one of the creatures in the swarm. I throw my dagger and it cleanly cuts off its neck, sending a heavy mist of blood into the air. The swarm reacts by feeding on its fallen comrade; driven by a blood frenzy, distracted from the rest of combat, it's unaware of what's going on around it."

 

[Hypersmurf]

And for what it's worth, I never pictured Blinding to actually use the normal ammo for weapon it says you must be holding. I imagine you're able to quickly load chaff in to the weapon, or something similar. It's the only thing that makes sense to me in the case of a weapon that normally is only one projectile.

Yeah - the fluff I'm using with my rogue is that he grabs a handful of powder out of a pouch and scatters it into the faces of the creatures in front of him, then chucks a handful of knives at everyone who got blinded...

Actually, it works just fine according to Custserv...

That's why I said the PHB rules don't permit it.

What CustServ said and what appears in the PHB aren't the same.

-Hyp.

 

[Aloïsius]

I don't like swarms (right now, I'm thinking about making another mechanic for them...) and I don't like blinding barrage (or any power that give me a headache when I tried to describe what is happening). So, my answer would be "why don't you use easy target on the ogre instead ?"

 

[Tony Vargas]

Swarms are a tad unrealistic as it is. Really, a swarm of rats each of whom, individually, would be instantly killed by, say, passing through a Cloud of Daggers, should be oblitterated by a cloud of daggers, flaming sphere, or other auto-damage area attack. But, for the sake of playabiliy, they aren't, rather, they have a vulnerablity to area attacks.

As you point out, Blinding Barrage is already a bit of a stretch - it's hard to throw 9 weapons and 9 enemies in six seconds and hit them all close enough to the eyes that they're temporarily blinded. If you willing suspension of disbelief can handle that, it should be able to handle doing some extra damage to a swarm & blinding it, too. If I were the player, BTW, just for the drama of it, I'd probably want to throw multiple weapons instead of just one at the swarm - or, better, 'Xena' a magic thrown weapon all over it. :>

 

[jjf]

The need to spend an extra minor action loading each shuriken bummed by Rogue out, and seems to either severely limit this power or make it entirely dependent on getting a particular feat (Quick Draw) to make it work right.

So here's the House Rule I proposed. I want to get my players' feedback and yours before putting it into effect.

=====
RATIONALE
1) The PHB says:

The crossbow is “load minor,” which means it requires a minor action to load a bolt into the weapon. If a power allows you to hit multiple targets, the additional load time is accounted for in the power."

and:

Light thrown weapons don’t deal as much damage as heavy thrown weapons, but some powers let you hurl several of them at once or in rapid succession.

2) I hate the Xena Warrior Princess boomerang effect. It's stupid. If magic daggers fly with that kind of unerring accuracy, you should never need to roll to hit. Just pitch it in the general direction of your foes and go make a sandwich or something until it comes whistling back.

=====
RULE
The Rogue must have a crossbow, sling, or light thrown weapon equipped when she starts her attack, but the drawing of additional ammunition, including light thrown weapons, is built into Blinding Barrage. In other words, the Rogue without Quick Draw is not limited to targeting only two foes (one for each hand).

In exchange, nix the Xena rule. Your magical thrown weapon returns to you after you throw it, but it does not zip around the room and hit all the targets. You still need to throw other missiles. After rolling all your attacks, you may designate which one receives the attack and damage benefits of your magic weapon.
=====

Thoughts?

 

[Danceofmasks]

An epic tier rogue would have trouble hitting without their enhancement bonus.
Just saying, crossbow gets the plus, and able to hit 5 targets, why can't the dagger?

Not that daggers aren't already the kings of hitting, but if a rogue were to use, say, shuriken .. it would be terribly disappointing.

Having said that, crossbows stretch suspension of disbelief, too ... take split the tree (ranger 1) as an example.