Can bows be Keen?

[Hypersmurf]

Unfortunately, since it lacks the important "Bows, crossbows, and slings so crafted bestow this upon their ammunition" clause, it won't affect the arrows.

What difference does that make? Bows have a threat range, arrows don't. Keen improves the threat range.

If you allow Keen to be put on a bow, it doesn't need to bestow anything on the arrows.

-Hyp.

 

[Norfleet]

It's times like these that lead me to believe that 3rd edition is crazy. Bows having threat ranges, arrows not having threat ranges, arrows not even being considered normally weapons....

Somewhere along the line, the concept of common sense went entirely out of the design. Even in the old days of yore, no sane rules lawyer would EVER attempt to pull arguments like this.

I really hate to seem like a stick in the mud, but somewhere along the line, a horrible mistake was made that brought us to arguments like this.

 

[Thanee]

[sarcasm] You're right! How could I be so blind! That must mean that all the additional special abilities in other books (which don't appear on that table) cannot be placed on items under any circumstances.[/sarcasm]

Seriously though. If we accepted your reasoning, we would be forced to conclude that the lists were exclusive - and thus that additional item enhancements in MoF, Sword and Fist, etc. simply did not exist.

It's just a table for generating magic items. It explicitly doesn't cover everything that could be found, and even more so does not cover everything which could be made. There are rules for item creation that cover things that you cannot roll up on the charts. Your claim that the charts have anything, at all, to do with what you can and cannot make is ludicrous.

Hehe, now you're clearly missing the point.

The books MoF, etc. do expand the lists, btw, so my reasoning is perfectly valid for those books as well!

Yes, the magic item creation system does allow anything basically under DM's discretion. I've already said that in my first post, that a DM can allow it for sure.

But the basic framework presented does not allow for it. You cannot make a keen bow when you ristrict yourself to the limits presented in the book. You can make any item, if you do not, so you can surely also make a keen bow then. But that's not the point. The magic item creation guidelines are for the DM to have a help to price items, they are not an item creation toolset for the players.

And the basic answer to the question, whether a bow can be made keen, is no. The DM can allow it specifically, expanding the keen ability, but the one in the book does not allow it.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

What difference does that make? Bows have a threat range, arrows don't. Keen improves the threat range.

If you allow Keen to be put on a bow, it doesn't need to bestow anything on the arrows.

That's a very naive approach, tho, when you look at the Keen Edge spell (which is cast on arrows not bows (yes, I know it doesn't specifically say it cannot be cast on bows... )).

Bye
Thanee

 

[Deset Gled]

What difference does that make? Bows have a threat range, arrows don't. Keen improves the threat range.

Interesting point. I guess that, under a strict reading, that particular phrase is just a redundant clarification.

It is another indication that it may have been the intent of the authors to not allow keen on a bow, though it is far from proof. I do find it conceptually difficult to imagine how the bow itself would change the threat range. As a DM, I would dissallow players from buying or finding such an item (backed up by the lack of Keen on the Ranged Weapon table), but I might let them talk me into making one themselves if they were willing to spend the feat and skill points.

 

[hong]

[sarcasm] You're right! How could I be so blind! That must mean that all the additional special abilities in other books (which don't appear on that table) cannot be placed on items under any circumstances.[/sarcasm]

While I [heartily] agree with using [optional] asides to spice up one's [otherwise] dry [and uninteresting] monologues, I cannot help but [vehemently] disagree with the use of such [optional] material in a manner [very] similar to that of [oft-misused] stage directions.

Because for these purposes, we have smileys! No post would be complete without smileys! These things were put on earth or at least bulletin boards for a purpose, after all. It would be most unbecoming for us not to use them.

Seriously though. If we accepted your reasoning, we would be forced to conclude that the lists were exclusive - and thus that additional item enhancements in MoF, Sword and Fist, etc. simply did not exist.

Sounds like a good idea to me! Armour of speed, anyone?

 

[Darklone]

Thanks hong, I still prefer that ~2000gp ring of cure light wounds.

 

[hong]

Thanks hong, I still prefer that ~2000gp ring of cure light wounds.

Actually, I wouldn't have a problem with an at-will CLW item, at least at high levels. Once you get to about 15th level or so, hit points tend to become less of a problem, in terms of resource management between fights. Either you've got enough to survive a fight, in which case you get healed up to max, or you don't have enough, and you die. It's the same reason I don't think fast healing would be inappropriate at those levels.

2000 gp may still be a bit too cheap, true.

 

[Darklone]

Right... looking at my level 12 minotaur barbarian... it's simply a question if he dishes out enough damage (with the others) before the monster kills him, up to 5 cure light wounds don't really matter if he takes 100 points of damage per round...

A ring that would cast Heal at you every round would be nice. Huhmhuhm, I'll get one.

 

[FrankTrollman]

And the basic answer to the question, whether a bow can be made keen, is no.

Again, where the hell does this come from?

To create a magic weapon with a special power you must:

1> Have a heat source.

2> Have a masterwork weapon.

3> Enchant it with a +1 or greater enhancement bonus.

4> Meet all the prerequisites of the special power.

The prerequisites of the Keen special power are:

1> A caster level of 10+

2> Access to the Keen Edge spell.

3> A Piercing or Slashing Weapon.

That's it. Any other restriction is only in your mind.

As for the tables - they can't even generate all the weapons - are you telling me that you can't enchant whip daggers?

-Frank