Can D&D be played without all the mini rules?

[Terramotus]

While there were rules that covered movement, combat and the like, they came second so to speak to making the world fantastic and our characters alive.

This mini / square game reduces all that to clumps of plastic for me.

Any suggestions on how to ignore the physical placement of the game as it currently stands and bring it back into the imagination?

So, I have a question for you - would using counters/markers instead of minis, and sketched out maps on a battlemat instead of any kind of printed maps help you out at all? I can understand wanting to imagine the creature in your mind instead of seeing the mini, but why does having a good idea of where the combatants are relative to each other kill the imagination?

I remember many times in 2E, where we played without any sort of battle mat, having to draw out the battlefield on a piece of scrap paper because it was difficult to get across to the players what exactly the battlefield looked like through just description.

Something similar to this often occurred:

Player: Ok, so I climb on top of the leaning column and run across it to jump on the dragon.
Me: That's a really long distance to be jumping...
Player: I thought the broken column was leaning on the column near the dragon?
Me: Yes, but the tall part is actually facing away from the dragon. The line of columns doesn't run that way. But there's that altar that's closer you could probably jump off.
Player: Argh! I don't understand this temple at all! I thought the columns were perpendicular to the dragon!
Me: They were until he charged Player2. Here, let me draw it out.

But anyway, yeah, you could probably make it work without a map without too much trouble, as long as you were good with descriptions and kept a good idea in your head of what was going on. The way it's printed in the book makes it sound more complicated than it plays. I also agree that it's probably easier than 3E is to run without a map.

 

[Regicide]

Oddly enough, lots of us actually ROLE-PLAY in 4e. Don't believe me? Check it out.

There may be something inherent in you that stops you from roleplaying with 4e, but don't blame it on the game.

4E is primarily a combat system with out-of-combat being a distant second, and some people don't consider the mechanical combat part of it to be role playing.

We have a player's handbook which is chock full of character creation which is all combat stats. A monster manual, which is all combat stats. And a DMG which has some role-playing in it, but mostly players look at their PHB and wonder how to use all those combat stats. Is there a setting? Not at present.

Yes, you can role-play in 4E, but it's in spite of the system, not because it.

 

[Kaffis]

4E is primarily a combat system with out-of-combat being a distant second, and some people don't consider the mechanical combat part of it to be role playing.

We have a player's handbook which is chock full of character creation which is all combat stats. A monster manual, which is all combat stats. And a DMG which has some role-playing in it, but mostly players look at their PHB and wonder how to use all those combat stats. Is there a setting? Not at present.

Yes, you can role-play in 4E, but it's in spite of the system, not because it.

What kind of rules would you prefer were placed in the PHB and MM to add roleplaying to them?

Really?

A system's job, when it comes to roleplaying, is to get out of the way. Roleplaying is *always* "in spite of the rules", because you don't make rules about the roleplaying (otherwise, it becomes rollplaying, and looks more like skill challenges).

The 4e DMG, as a book of advice for the DM, makes some suggestions about how to foster and promote roleplaying. The 4e PHB makes some suggestions about things to think about for your character during character creation, to help you get a handle on how you want the character to behave. That's how it should be, the rest is for the players to take to the table.

 

[Terramotus]

What kind of rules would you prefer were placed in the PHB and MM to add roleplaying to them?

Really?

A system's job, when it comes to roleplaying, is to get out of the way. The DMG, as a book of advice for the DM, makes some suggestions about how to foster and promote roleplaying. The PHB makes some suggestions about things to think about for your character during character creation, to help you get a handle on how you want the character to behave. That's how it should be, the rest is for the players to take to the table.

Agreed 100%. What sort of rules to enforce roleplaying do any of the older systems have, for that matter, other than the much-maligned Alignment system?

 

[Zaruthustran]

4E is primarily a combat system with out-of-combat being a distant second, and some people don't consider the mechanical combat part of it to be role playing.

We have a player's handbook which is chock full of character creation which is all combat stats. A monster manual, which is all combat stats. And a DMG which has some role-playing in it, but mostly players look at their PHB and wonder how to use all those combat stats. Is there a setting? Not at present.

Yes, you can role-play in 4E, but it's in spite of the system, not because it.

You only *need* rules for combat. Everything else, you can role-play. Rules for height, rules for weight, rules for age and crafting and so on just get in the way and restrict the imagination.

In my opinion 4E is the easiest system to roleplay since OD&D. And the combat system is vastly better.

 

[Thasmodious]

4E is primarily a combat system with out-of-combat being a distant second, and some people don't consider the mechanical combat part of it to be role playing.

We have a player's handbook which is chock full of character creation which is all combat stats. A monster manual, which is all combat stats. And a DMG which has some role-playing in it, but mostly players look at their PHB and wonder how to use all those combat stats. Is there a setting? Not at present.

Yes, you can role-play in 4E, but it's in spite of the system, not because it.

If you require books and tables to tell you how to roleplay, regicide, you're not very good at it. That's okay though, there are plenty of systems out there that condense the wealth of roleplaying possibilities to a few dice rolls on a few tables, try one of them, they will walk you through it.

Me, I already know how to roleplay, been doing it for 30 years, so I am plenty happy with a concise, straightforward system that handles what I need it to handle. I don't need the PHB to hold my hand and walk me through the wide world of roleplaying.

 

[Jack Colby]

Me, I already know how to roleplay, been doing it for 30 years, so I am plenty happy with a concise, straightforward system that handles what I need it to handle. I don't need the PHB to hold my hand and walk me through the wide world of roleplaying.

Quoted for truth.

 

[erik_the_guy]

If you are seriously hearkening back to the good old days, let's remember that D&D was based on/inspired by miniature games.

For me it doesn't subtract from the 'fantastic world' essence of the game. If the game is losing its appeal its not the rules, its the players/DM.

 

[Regicide]

If you require books and tables to tell you how to roleplay, regicide, you're not very good at it.

A setting might be nice.

The lead-off module being about 5% RP and 95% HnS is pretty telling.

It's clear from the product how the game is intended. Kobold miniatures anyone?

 

[D'karr]

A setting might be nice.

The lead-off module being about 5% RP and 95% HnS is pretty telling.

It's clear from the product how the game is intended. Kobold miniatures anyone?

Interestingly enough, the magenta colored boxed set with which I started gaming had Keep on the Borderlands, a very combat heavy adventure with big empty areas for "setting". Heck the people on the keep didn't even have names. The boxed set included very simple rules and character advancement to 3rd level and the rules where nothing but combat related. Roleplaying was alive and well then, so not being able to roleplay is not a limitation of the rules or the adventures. That's pretty telling.