Can druids be effective without Wildshape specialisation?

[ThirdWizard]

Take Natural Spell and be both!

 

[sniffles]

I don't think you have to plan around wildshaping at all. I've played two druids in 3.5, and I've never once used wild shape for either of them. In our Greyhawk campaign, my druid/ranger is actually the primary combat "monster" of the party. She has a longspear and a two-handed scimitar (GM ignores weapon size rules), and she does major damage with them. She's just as effective that way as she would be turning into a bear or something.

It's all in what you want to do with the character that decides whether your druid is more effective as a wildshaper or with some other focus.

 

[Mystery Man]

I don't think you have to plan around wildshaping at all. I've played two druids in 3.5, and I've never once used wild shape for either of them. In our Greyhawk campaign, my druid/ranger is actually the primary combat "monster" of the party. She has a longspear and a two-handed scimitar (GM ignores weapon size rules), and she does major damage with them. She's just as effective that way as she would be turning into a bear or something.

It's all in what you want to do with the character that decides whether your druid is more effective as a wildshaper or with some other focus.

The player in my group did much the same thing, he never wild shaped because the crap he could summon did more damage than he ever could. Druids are a handful.

 

[shadowlight]

Flame Blade ... delivering touch attacks ...!

Come on back?

How do you deliver touch attacks with a Flame Blade? The druid doesn't touch the enemy their Flame Blade does...

 

[ThirdWizard]

How do you deliver touch attacks with a Flame Blade? The druid doesn't touch the enemy their Flame Blade does...

Attacks with the flame blade are melee touch attacks.

The flame blade is making the touch attacks.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

What exactly does a druid lose indoors aside from the entangle line of spells? Even Call Lightning works inside now. Druids are more effective in the wilderness sure. They ain't exactly pansies in close quarters. They are capable melee combatants even standing upright. They are the second best blaster types in the game. (Third if you have psions.) They are the strongest summoners in the games. (Again Psions can be better if you use the minds eye stuff.) They have poison, call lightning, flame strike, wall spells. Wild Shape is just icing on the cake, since anything a druid can turn into, he can summon long before.

Stuck indoors, I would rate them the 4th best blaster types behind the Wizard, Sorceror, and even the Cleric if we think of "blasting" as something other than merely HPs damage. 6th best once we crack open the XPH.

A lot of the stronger and more interesting Druid spells are only notably efficient if you have room to work. Spike Growth, for example, requires both plenty of room and plants in situ. Spike Stones are very nice in dungeons if you are in a largish space, otherwise it is on the weak side for a 4th level spell. Ditto Entangle, Sleet Storm, and (to some degree) Wall of Thorns.

They are mediocre at melee because of poor ACs.

They do make strong summoners if you have the meatshields to protect you. The Animal Companion helps here. This is a viable theme to work on.

Anoter option is to pick up a single level of Beastmaster (and Natural Bond -- if your DM gives you a generous ruling here) to build the Super Animal Companion. I have my doubts this will work at higher levels but it could be fun through the middle levels. Holding your AC back for 1 round for a Summoning then sending the beasties into the fray with Animal Growth will work well in some combats.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

The player in my group did much the same thing, he never wild shaped because the crap he could summon did more damage than he ever could. Druids are a handful.

With Augment Summoning that could easily be true. More damage than either the Druid of his Animal Companion could ever do.

 

[Errant]

Wildshape is about more than changing into a bear and wading into melee. It grants many modes of movement and size alteration that really come in handy. So, you don't have to focus on wildshape, but I wouldn't ignore it either

I certainly appreciate the non-combat values of Wildshape and didn't intend to ignore it. I just wasn't keen on HAVING to sink my teeth/fangs (in any form) into my enemies to pull my weight in the party. Can you imagine getting a mouthful of Gibbering Mouther? Ghast? :\ Forgive me for having too much imagination sometimes.

How about this?
4 Star General Stupid Druid: ... Absolutely unbalanced idiot.

Is that supposed to be encouraging somehow?

Take Natural Spell and be both!

Natural Spell was must have. Of course.

I don't think you have to plan around wildshaping at all. I've played two druids in 3.5, and I've never once used wild shape for either of them.

Now THAT is encouraging. Any spells or tactics you found particularly handy that you can share?

 

[Andor]

Stuck indoors, I would rate them the 4th best blaster types behind the Wizard, Sorceror, and even the Cleric if we think of "blasting" as something other than merely HPs damage. 6th best once we crack open the XPH.

Ermm. Nope. When I say 'blasting' I mean raw HP damage. What else could it mean? Admittedly I was lumping the Wizards and Sorcerers together when I put the Druid in second of the core classes. Nonetheless Druids are second only to the dedicated arcane casters in raw damage output. And they have twice the hp, better AC, better BAB, better skills, better weapons usage, wild shape, and better summoning to make up in survivablity what they lose in raw damage. They have fewer save or die and NPC control spells granted, but if I was talking about that I would have said 'Offensive spell utility' or some such construction to indicate I meant more than raw damage.

Yes the wizard/sorcerer/warmage/psion/wilder can do more damage, but the Druid can defeat any of them in a duel. He has better HP, saves, healing, and an animal companion who could use the mages familiar as TP.

 

[Dougal DeKree]

Druid spells I like are Longstrider, Faerie Fire, Summon Swarm, Chill/Heat Metal, Soften Earth&Stone, Giant Vermin and Rusting Grasp. They are versatile and useful, especially in a dungeon. E.g. with Rusting Grasp alone you can "disarm" traps, "open" doors, free yourself from handcuffs etc.