D&D 5E Can I use action surge in the middle of another action (between attacks when attacking with extra attack)?

[ezo]

None of that gets around 5e's, "If it's not explicitly WRITTEN(W), you can't do it by RAW." If it doesn't say that you can do it in-between attacks like the movement in-between attacks, you can't do it unless the DM makes a rule that you can. It's really that simple.

Show me the rule that is written that says you can take another action(not bonus action) while you are currently taking an action. If you can do that, I will concede that you are correct. If not, you must make a new rule in order to do it, because RAW doesn't allow it.

Seriously??? Are you purposely wasting my time with this...?

FOR THE LAST TIME: There is NO rule written in 5E that says either of these two things:

1. You cannot take an action until your current action is completed, even if you have a feature which allows you to take a second action on your turn (such as Action Surge or the haste spell).

(YOUR "rule", not written anywhere, so NOT a RAW--as much as you seem like you want it to be... )

2. If you can take a second action on your turn (such as Action Surge or the haste spell), you can take that action while performing another action.

(My "rule", also not written anywhere, so not a RAW -- which I NEVER claimed it was. )

It's REALLY that simple.

So, would you please stop claiming your view is RAW when you have, never (not once!) posted any sort of RAW similar to option #1 above. It doesn't exist, therefore it is not RAW. If you can (finally) do that, I will concede you are correct.

(But, I know you can't.... but please waste all the time you want trying to find that RULE in any of the books...)

At least you seem to finally understand a bonus action (such as in the TWF example) is possible to "interrupt" the Attack action.

 

[Irlo]

My answer: yes, you can!

Breaking down a character's turn into actions, bonus actions, reactions, and movement is the tool we use to facilitate orderly resolution of various events in the game. Like the initiative order itself, it's a system of sequential events and resolution of a combat encounter that is imagined to be non-sequential and often simultaneous.

Some actions represent characters' on-going activity. Disengage is not a thing that one does and stops doing -- it's evasive action that occurs throughout the turn. Dodge represents activity that continues throughout one's turn and beyond. Attack can represent multiple thrusts, feints, swings with a weapon even if it's resolved with only one attack roll. The attack action with extra attack or multi-attack in play is even more clearly not an indivisible uninterruptable activity.

A bonus action and the action granted by action surge are different mechanical implementations of similar in-game activities. No one in the game-world can tell the difference between a rogue's cunning action disengage and a fighter's action surge disengage.

A rules interpretation that prohibits using action surge in the midst of an attack action (or any other action) wouldn't affect my game very much at all, only because it would rarely even come up. But when it did come up, it would make the turn resolution less immersive, more artificial. Aside from that, allowing it opens up some more interesting choices for the fighter, and that's a good thing.

 

[Maxperson]

EXACTLY!

It is NOT explicitly written a nywhere that one action ends when another starts.

You are just making that up.

I'm making nothing up. RAW does not explicitly say you can interrupt an action with another action, so there's no RAW allowing you to do so. That means that you can't unless the DM makes a rule that allows it.

 

[Maxperson]

Show me the rule that says one action ends when you start another one.

If it does not state this explicitly then it is not RAW.

It doesn't work that way. You are inventing allowing it to work when no RAW says it does. Since there is no RAW allowing it, it is not allowed unless the DM makes up a rule that allows it.

 

[ECMO3]

I'm making nothing up. RAW does not explicitly say you can interrupt an action with another action, so there's no RAW allowing you to do so. That means that you can't unless the DM makes a rule that allows it.

Where are you coming up with this "interrupt an action" stuff?

The rules do not explicitly say that using action surge in the middle of an action interrupts an action. There is no rule dissalowing it and you are wrong when you previously stated that once you started action surge the "old [action] would be over". There is no rule explicitly saying that, so it is NOT RAW.

To say again it is NOT RAW that action surge stops an action already underway, it is not stated explicitly anywhere in the rules so it does NOT do that RAW.

Further, to put this into context, there is no rule stating explicitly when you use extra attack you can make one attack with a dagger and a second attack with a longsword .... so you can't do that because it does not explicitly say you can?

 

[Maxperson]

The rules do not explicitly say that using action surge interupts an action.

Not relevant.

There is no rule dissalowing it and you previously stated that once you started action surge the "old [action] would be over". There is no rule explicitly saying that so it is NOT RAW.

Dude. There is no rule disallowing my fighter from shooting nuclear missiles out of his arse, either. Your argument is that he therefore CAN do that since there's no rule disallowing it.

It simply does not work that way. The default answer is no unless you can find an explicit rule allowing it. If the game is silent, the DM needs to create a house rule.

 

[ECMO3]

Not relevant.

Dude. There is no rule disallowing my fighter from shooting nuclear missiles out of his arse, either. Your argument is that he therefore CAN do that since there's no rule disallowing it.

There is no explicit rule stating that a PC walks upright on his feet and not on their hands either, but that doesn't mean PCs are not allowed to walk on their feet. The only "explcilt" rules for movement are jumping, swimming and climbing and even those are not explicit as to what your hands and feet are doing when you do them.

There is a specific rule allowing action surge. There is a specific rule regarding extra attack (actually several of them). This seems to be compliant with both of those rules as they are written.

It simply does not work that way. The default answer is no unless you can find an explicit rule allowing it. If the game is silent, the DM needs to create a house rule.

I am the one who asked the question to start with, and I am not wed to the idea that it is allowed RAW (although I am leamning that way), but the explanation you have made regarding "interrupting an action" and "explicit wording" makes no sense at all because you are saying something is not RAW unless it is explicitly stated and then you are turning around and citing something as a reason that is itself not explicitly stated.

Further as I noted above if you subscribe to this you can't make one attack with a hand axe and another with a longsword because it is not specifically mentioned. This is a very narrow view of RAW I think.

 

[Maxperson]

I am the one who asked the question to start with, and I am not wed to the idea that it is allowed RAW (although I am leamning that way), but the explanation you have made regarding "interrupting an action" and "explicit wording" makes no sense at all because you are saying something is not RAW unless it is explicitly stated and then you are turning around and citing something as a reason that is itself not explicitly stated.

I said it's not allowed by RAW, as in RAW does not explicitly allow it. I have been correct in this the entire thread.

Further as I noted above if you subscribe to this you can't make one attack with a hand axe and another with a longsword because it is not specifically mentioned. This is a very narrow view of RAW I think.

This is a rulings(house rule) over rules edition. It's deliberately written vaguely and with holes to cause DMs to have to make rulings. But in the case of axe and sword, you are two weapon fighting if you have one in each hand, which means you need to follow those rules.

There is a specific rule allowing action surge. There is a specific rule regarding extra attack (actually several of them). This seems to be compliant with both of those rules.

Then make a rule that allows it. RAW does not allow it, because nothing explicitly says you can do that.

 

[ezo]

I have been correct in this the entire thread.

I think you mean "corrected"...

 

[Maxperson]

I think you mean "corrected"...

Only if you can quote me the explicit rule that allows it. If you can't, then I've been correct the entire thread that RAW does not allow it.