Can monsters make unarmed strikes?

[glass]

The dragon might also be able to grapple, then use the damage option instead of the attack option. This would negate the -4 to deal nonlethal damage.

What -4?

I'm not sure if that would be an option for natual attacks (bite, claw, claw, wing, wing, tail) or would be based on BAB, BAB-5, BAB-10.... I'm guessing the number of attacks would be based on BAB, and then damage would be based on unarmed attacks of the size plus strength.

You guess that unarmed strikes work like unarmed strikes? Good guess!


glass.

 

[frankthedm]

Next someone will be incredulous about a dragon wanting to do nonlethal damage.

Oh a dragon has a few reasons to keep victims alive. Spell components, teaching the young at the lair how to kill and many other less pleasant things like breeding half dragons need living victims.

 

[frankthedm]

Say I'm a dragon, and I want to subdue someone, but I don't want to take a -4 penalty to my attack roll to deal nonlethal damage with a claw or bite. Can I just make an unarmed strike, which is nonlethal damage? I mean, sure, I provoke an AoO if I don't have improved unarmed strike, but can I do it?

If a huge dragon needs to take a high HP victim alive, use the snatch feat.

Strike for lethal, pull into grapple.
Next round use an opposed grapple roll to put some subdual on the victim using full compliment of BAB based unarmed strikes-0/-5/-10...etc.
The damage will rack up fast, though because some of it is non lethal, there is almost no danger of killing the victim outright. {I personally think that is a mistake of the ruleset, IMO, the hit that sends one into the negatives should determine dying or subdued]

 

[brehobit]

Say I'm a dragon, and I want to subdue someone, but I don't want to take a -4 penalty to my attack roll to deal nonlethal damage with a claw or bite. Can I just make an unarmed strike, which is nonlethal damage? I mean, sure, I provoke an AoO if I don't have improved unarmed strike, but can I do it?

Yes, and he can iterate with a high BAB and probably combine with his natural attacks...
There was some discussion of this a while back:
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?p=3404417#post3404417

Mark

 

[Ranger REG]

Whichever part it wants. As moritheil mentioned, if you can wrap your head around the concept of a dragon, and a dragon the way it works in D&D, where it's able to breathe fire, fly despite its size, and be killed by a halfling with a sword smaller than its toenail, then being unable to see the same dragon making an unarmed strike seems a little contradictory.

It's possible. But then I haven't been able to KO a mosquito. They all ended up squished.

 

[sukael]

If a huge dragon needs to take a high HP victim alive, use the snatch feat.

And if it doesn't have the Snatch feat?

What -4?

Nonlethal Damage with a Weapon that Deals Lethal Damage: You can use a melee weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage instead, but you take a -4 penalty on your attack roll.

Lethal Damage with a Weapon that Deals Nonlethal Damage: You can use a weapon that deals nonlethal damage, including an unarmed strike, to deal lethal damage instead, but you take a -4 penalty on your attack roll.

 

[hong]

and many other less pleasant things like breeding half dragons need living victims.

Duct tape ahoy!

 

[shilsen]

It's possible. But then I haven't been able to KO a mosquito. They all ended up squished.

Since you don't live in a world with the rules that govern D&D, it's a lousy analogy. And it's not that hard to catch a mosquito without killing it, for what it's worth.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Nonlethal Damage with a Weapon that Deals Lethal Damage: You can use a melee weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage instead, but you take a -4 penalty on your attack roll.

Lethal Damage with a Weapon that Deals Nonlethal Damage: You can use a weapon that deals nonlethal damage, including an unarmed strike, to deal lethal damage instead, but you take a -4 penalty on your attack roll.

I believe his point is that the dragon's unarmed strike isn't a weapon that deals lethal damage, it's a weapon that deals non-lethal damage. So he doesn't need to take a -4 to deal non-lethal damage with it, so there's no need to grapple to 'get around' the non-existent -4.

-Hyp.

 

[sukael]

I believe his point is that the dragon's unarmed strike isn't a weapon that deals lethal damage, it's a weapon that deals non-lethal damage. So he doesn't need to take a -4 to deal non-lethal damage with it, so there's no need to grapple to 'get around' the non-existent -4.

Say I'm a dragon, and I want to subdue someone, but I don't want to take a -4 penalty to my attack roll to deal nonlethal damage with a claw or bite.

The dragon might also be able to grapple, then use the damage option instead of the attack option. This would negate the -4 to deal nonlethal damage.

I think TheMagog is referring to attacking with a natural attack.