Can Sharpshooter be used with a Net?

[DND_Reborn]

What is damage? Answer: a loss of hp. What does 1 damage mean. It means you lost 1 hp. What does 0 damage mean? It means you lost 0 hp, that your hp remained unchanged.

When a net is used on you then you lose 0 hp. The same with the sleep, when sleep is used on you then you lose 0 hp. Thus, Both sleep and the net deal 0 damage. The null set doesn’t apply to them because as just demonstrated, 0 damage has a meaning and both the net and sleep effects fall under that meaning.

f(x) = 0 is the mathematical model you are looking for to describe your interpretation of net damage. That is, no matter what input you use you always evaluate to 0. (This is in stark contrast to the null set)

HP is an abstract value lost when a character is injured by an attack, spell, etc. A net does not injure a player so it does not have an effect on HP.

You are blatantly incorrect in this case and not demonstrating anything convincing. There are plenty of features and such in D&D that have no damaging effect. Sleep, Grappling, etc. Consider the Tendril attack of a Roper. It is an Melee Weapon Attack (+7, reach 50 ft., one creature). On a hit, the target is grappled (no damage dealt). A Roper has a STR +4 modifier, but despite this being a melee weapon attack, the damage isn't 4 or anything else. There is no damaging effect, it just isn't there. The Roper still gets the STR +4 modifier on the attack roll (proficiency bonus 3 +4 = 7 attack modifier) but doesn't deal damage on the attack. It isn't that it deals 0 damage, but that it doesn't deal damage. Important distinction you seem to be missing IMO.

So the null set is precisely what you are dealing with. There is no damage dealt. We are not dealing with the function f(x) = 0.

All that being the case, if you are your table's DM, interpret as 0. No worries. If you are player and want it that way, discuss it with your DM. In my first post in this thread I argued for modifying damage and rationale as to how it could be justified if you wanted to play it that way. But in a pure interpretation of the RAW and RAI, that isn't how nets work.

In a later post I posed the question: you add Dex mod to the attack roll with a net, do you add Dex mod to the damage? If you are playing that way, then yes, modify the damage and treat it as 0 if you want. If you have been adding Dex mod to the attack roll, but not having the net "damage" adjusted by Dex mod, then you shouldn't modify it through other means.

 

[jasper]

-- is not an integer. Non-numeric. Null only. Non-alphanumeric. I would laugh if someone demanded/ask to have an ability/feat cause damage with a net. Remember some times things are place on charts just for easy of look shi.... stuff up.

 

[FrogReaver]

-- is not an integer. Non-numeric. Null only. Non-alphanumeric. I would laugh if someone demanded/ask to have an ability/feat cause damage with a net. Remember some times things are place on charts just for easy of look shi.... stuff up.

No damage = 0 damage. If the net does no damage then it does 0 damage.

 

[FrogReaver]

HP is an abstract value lost when a character is injured by an attack, spell, etc. A net does not injure a player so it does not have an effect on HP.

You are blatantly incorrect in this case and not demonstrating anything convincing. There are plenty of features and such in D&D that have no damaging effect. Sleep, Grappling, etc. Consider the Tendril attack of a Roper. It is an Melee Weapon Attack (+7, reach 50 ft., one creature). On a hit, the target is grappled (no damage dealt). A Roper has a STR +4 modifier, but despite this being a melee weapon attack, the damage isn't 4 or anything else. There is no damaging effect, it just isn't there. The Roper still gets the STR +4 modifier on the attack roll (proficiency bonus 3 +4 = 7 attack modifier) but doesn't deal damage on the attack. It isn't that it deals 0 damage, but that it doesn't deal damage. Important distinction you seem to be missing IMO.

So the null set is precisely what you are dealing with. There is no damage dealt. We are not dealing with the function f(x) = 0.

All that being the case, if you are your table's DM, interpret as 0. No worries. If you are player and want it that way, discuss it with your DM. In my first post in this thread I argued for modifying damage and rationale as to how it could be justified if you wanted to play it that way. But in a pure interpretation of the RAW and RAI, that isn't how nets work.

In a later post I posed the question: you add Dex mod to the attack roll with a net, do you add Dex mod to the damage? If you are playing that way, then yes, modify the damage and treat it as 0 if you want. If you have been adding Dex mod to the attack roll, but not having the net "damage" adjusted by Dex mod, then you shouldn't modify it through other means.

My issue isn’t nets, it’s the faulty mathematical concept that 0 damage is different than no damage. Both phrases designate the same concept.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

My issue isn’t nets, it’s the faulty mathematical concept that 0 damage is different than no damage. Both phrases designate the same concept.

I wouldn't say it's faulty. It's not 0, it's '-'.

I'm not ruling "NO DAMAGE", I'm ruling 'DAMAGE IS NOT APPLICABLE TO THIS ITEM' so I wouldn't allow you to add damage to an attack because damage is not applicable. It is impossible to do harm with a net.

To give a totally ridiculous example:

Weapon: Feather. damage: '-'
Special: when you hit with a feather, you tickle the target and they laugh and drop their weapon. They are disarmed.

Can you see the reasoning why I wouldn't apply damage to a net? The same reason I wouldn't apply damage to a feather.


That said, If you rule it as - = 0 then you should definitely allow sharpshooter and you should let a net add a person's dex bonus to damage.

As a total aside:

I think a cool feat would be to allow you to forgo damage and allow you to restrain someone for a round.

Like,

Pinning Shot
"If a target is adjacent to a wall or appropriate object such as a table or bookshelf(DM fiat), you may forgo damage to restrain a target for 1 round or until they use an action to pull themselves from >>insert DC<<. You might fire an arrow and pin a person's sleeve against a wall, for instance."

You couldn't stack this with sharpshooter's damage because you are 'forgoing all damage'.

 

[Charlaquin]

Damage is like an apple not a floogittflorp. Damage exists as we can see with short swords and great swords. Since damage exists within the game then in the game we define no damage with 0 not with the null set.

Damage exists, but the damage dealt by a net does not. Saying a net does 0 damage is like saying soap does 0 damage. It’s not accurate because neither piece of adventuring gear is used to deal damage. You could maybe use either as an improvised weapon at DM discretion, but then the damage isn’t 0 either, and it’s also more accurate to describe that damage as “improvised weapon damage” than as soap or net damage.

 

[jasper]

No damage = 0 damage. If the net does no damage then it does 0 damage.

No the net is on the weapon chart for easy of finding it. A hit with a net cause the restrained condition. A condition is an effect, not damage. And I would not allow any feat, bs, language lawyering, etc for a normal net do damage. Also the property of a net is SPECIAL. So since specific over rides general. The Special effect means the No damage is not zero.

 

[DND_Reborn]

To give a totally ridiculous example:

Weapon: Feather. damage: '-'
Special: when you hit with a feather, you tickle the target and they laugh and drop their weapon. They are disarmed.

Wow, I so want to make a Halfling Rogue with this and argue with my DM it is a finesse weapon so I can also add sneak attack!

 

[jasper]

Hmm. Ok new Bard/Fighter build. Feat sharpshooter. Tool. Soap Bubble wand. Outfit clown costume. Now I can take the -10 to hit and kill all your brats with a wave of my wand. And using the ammo rules I recover half my bubbles for the next birthday party.
jasper jester the Murder hobo clown. Kill kids for fun and profit. hahahahhahahahhaa

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

Wow, I so want to make a Halfling Rogue with this and argue with my DM it is a finesse weapon so I can also add sneak attack!

You can’t sneak attack with a feather. Unless it’s a cockatrice feather.