D&D 5E Can Someone Please Clarify Surprise?

[pontinyc]

It says in the PH that, "If you're surprised, you can't move or take an action on your first turnoff the combat, and you can't take a reaction until the combat ends." (p. 189)

Does this mean that if a party of PC's surprises a group of adversaries by using the attack action, the PC's get to immediately attack again (if that's the action they choose) after the first attack? This is also hypothetically assuming that the adversaries don't have any reactions to take in response to the first attack.

Any clarification would be tremendously appreciated, thank you!

 

[Tormyr]

The quote is not entirely correct. A surprised creature can only take reactions after its turn ends.

In your scenario, everyone would roll initiative. Play would progress as normal, but any creature that was surprised would not be able to act on their first turn. During the second round, everyone acts as normal during the second round.

So if the adversaries rolled higher on initiative but were surprised, they would go first but be unable to do anything. The PCs would then take their turns. The adversaries would then get to take their actions as normal during the second round. Since they rolled higher initiative, the PCs would not get to attack twice. If the PCs had rolled higher initiative, then they would have been able to attack twice before the adversaries would have been able to respond.

 

[pontinyc]

Thanks for the reply, Tormyr. So just to clarify, the order of things goes as follows:

1.) PC's sneak up on adversaries and their Stealth rolls beat the adversaries passive perception (or perception rolls if they have someone on guard, for example).
2.) The PC's attack, damage is figured, etc.
3.) The adversaries are unable to move or act in any way as a result of the attack because we're still in the first round.
4.) Initiative is rolled.
5.) Round two begins and combat continues using initiative order.

Does that seem right? Thanks for any thoughts!

 

[Iosue]

Thanks for the reply, Tormyr. So just to clarify, the order of things goes as follows:

1.) PC's sneak up on adversaries and their Stealth rolls beat the adversaries passive perception (or perception rolls if they have someone on guard, for example).
2.) The PC's attack, damage is figured, etc.
3.) The adversaries are unable to move or act in any way as a result of the attack because we're still in the first round.
4.) Initiative is rolled.
5.) Round two begins and combat continues using initiative order.

Does that seem right? Thanks for any thoughts!

Mostly right, although technically you would roll initiative before the PCs attack and the first round begins, but the surprised party would not be able to act on that first round. It's not so important if all the bad guys (or all the party) are surprised, but often it'll end up that some of the bad guys are surprised or some members of the party are surprised, so as the Combat Step-by-Step sidebar says, determine surprise, determine location, roll for initiative, and then take turns.

 

[pontinyc]

Great, thanks very much, Iosue. One last question re: surprise. Is it possible to make one perception roll for a whole group of adversaries/mooks to see if they're all surprised (as you might make one roll with initiative) or do you need to roll separately for each mook?

Thanks!

 

[Tormyr]

Whichever the DM feels like doing is fine. Multiple rolls generally means there will be a mix of surprised and not surprised creatures. A single roll is all or nothing. The DM decides which they want.

 

[wedgeski]

Does that seem right? Thanks for any thoughts!

Yup, that's right. Surprise rounds can be game changers for both PC's and villains. If the group with advantage also then "wins" initiative by rolling high, the battle can be over before it's even begun.

 

[Shiroiken]

Mostly right, although technically you would roll initiative before the PCs attack and the first round begins, but the surprised party would not be able to act on that first round. It's not so important if all the bad guys (or all the party) are surprised, but often it'll end up that some of the bad guys are surprised or some members of the party are surprised, so as the Combat Step-by-Step sidebar says, determine surprise, determine location, roll for initiative, and then take turns.

It also matters if they have Reactions. Uncanny Dodge and Opportunity Attacks are the most common one's I've seen, but I'm sure there are many others.

 

[pontinyc]

Thanks, all. Really appreciate all of the input.

 

[Uller]

Monsters A and B are suprised by characters 1 and 2.

Initiative is rolled. Order is

A
1
B
2

On A's turn it does not get to act but can now take reactions. 1 acts normally...Let's say he moves past A and B. A gets to use its reaction but B does not. On B's turn B can do nothing but can now react. 2 acts normally.

Second round everyone acts normally.

My group has found that surprise is just a bit too powerful as stealthy characters also tend to win initiative and therefore often get two rounds of actions before their enemies can do anything useful. So we nerfed it a bit. When a surprised character's turn comes up it can now take reactions and is moved to the end of init order and then can act normally. This way no one gets to hammer on a surprised character for two rounds without worry of getting whacked back. Combats in 5e tend to be 2-4 rnds so having two rounds of actions before an enemy can act makes combats go even more quickly.