Can someoone explain the "Daily Hate" for me?

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

When you have pre-day or per-encounter resources it reduces it from an RPG to a video game where you have to write everything down. If I want that, I will go play DDO.

I'm sorry, but this is complete bullpuckey.

Unless, of course, original D&D - with its daily spells - is a video game, too, to you?

 

[innerdude]

In the case of specifically daily martial, non-magical abilities it's a case of creating a problem (breaking narrative view / dissonance with the fiction) when it wasn't necessary. Other mechanical options could have accomplished the same type of martial/magic balance attempted by 4e without creating the perceived problems within the fiction that daily martial powers have caused.

(And yes, pemerton / Neonchameleon / Manbearcat / SkyOdin, I understand that some people LIKE interacting with the fiction on a metagame level. I'm just trying to address steeldragon's original question.)

 

[Pickles JG]

I'm sorry, but this is complete bullpuckey.

Unless, of course, original D&D - with its daily spells - is a video game, too, to you?

Actually it was conceived of as a video game but as home computers had not been invented in the 1970s they had to make do with toy soldiers bits of paper & odd japanese plastic monsters.

 

[Mishihari Lord]

With regard to theory, I loathe daily limit abilities. It generally doesn't make sense with regard to relevant fiction.

In practice, it actually turns out that it works pretty well. Lots of people have lots of fun with it and IME it runs really smoothly.

For a while I tried to rework D&D to run on things like mana and stamina, which I find more appealing. Nowadays I play other games when I want those things and play D&D when I want x/day abilities.

 

[Minigiant]

I don't hate daily abilities.
I prefer location based and bonus for penalty systems though.

 

[drothgery]

Daily abilities aren't in themselves terrible, but it's hard to balance classes with daily abilities against classes without them and a lot of people hate martial daily abilities, so I wouldn't object to going the other way and ditching daily abilities for everyone.

 

[FireLance]

Daily abilities aren't in themselves terrible, but it's hard to balance classes with daily abilities against classes without them and a lot of people hate martial daily abilities, so I wouldn't object to going the other way and ditching daily abilities for everyone.

Frankly, I'd rather take the other approach and ditch the martial classes.

I am only partly joking. It seems to me that there are only three viable options:

1. Accept that the class abilities of the martial classes are going to be somewhat one-dimensional, if not outright weaker, compared to the class abilities of the magical classes.

2. Accept that martial abilities that are able to keep pace with magical abilities will work differently from how we are used to seeing them in the real world.

3. Accept that trying to balance martial and magical abilities is like trying to square a circle and make all classes explicitly magical.

Different people will accept different combinations of the above options, of course.

 

[Garthanos]

In the case of specifically daily martial, non-magical abilities it's a case of creating a problem (breaking narrative view / dissonance with the fiction) when it wasn't necessary. Other mechanical options could have accomplished the same type of martial/magic balance attempted by 4e without creating the perceived problems within the fiction that daily martial powers have caused.

Show me dont tell me.. show me how its not necessary... how are you going to give me the cinematic flare and peak performance and in a way that gives me the player strategic choices?

When I watch a movie and a character does some ultra awesome move like a bring it from the ground hay maker after quite a bit of dancing around... I dont generally question why he didnt do that much much earlier. In a game I dont want to roll to see if that opening occurs every turn I assume the hero is looking for it to come up... oh my I get to choose when awesome.

 

[Remathilis]

Five Minute Workdays.

Seriously. Nearly 90% of all complaints about daily powers is one-and-done uses of powers leading to nova/nuking and then resting.

I wish I could say its a unique feature of D&D, but any system with a finite pool of power that needs to be replenished can be nuke/rest abused. You would have to design a game based solely around a "narrative" timeview (your pool doesn't recover until the adventure ends, be it in 15 minutes or 30 days) or create a pool of constantly refreshing abilities (where health and magic/abilities refresh per encounter so that every encounter is taken with full access to their abilities).

Daily is the worst system for handling resource management, except for all the other ones that have been tried.

 

[JamesonCourage]

I am only partly joking. It seems to me that there are only three viable options:

1. Accept that the class abilities of the martial classes are going to be somewhat one-dimensional, if not outright weaker, compared to the class abilities of the magical classes.

I think this is my preference, though my take is making magic worse at combat. More versatile, but worse at specializing. Maybe I should check out your thread and chime in there? As always, play what you like