Can sustained conjurations and zones fly?

[N8Ball]

OK, so the other night our group was fighting some Harpies and were having a difficult time of it since we're not primarilly a ranged party. The DM was fighting them smartly, maintaining enough altitude so that they could engage with their auras and blast effects, but we couldn't hit them in melee.

After an extended rest when we knew we were going to have to fight them again, the mage asked if Bigby's Icy grasp would bring them down to earth. The DM said that if it hit it would certainly stop them from moving the required 2 to maintain flight, but questioned aloud if the "move" ability of the hand allowed it to fly up to them and attack.

While were debating that subject, he also asked if stinking cloud could be moved to altitude to damage them.

The DM ruled that either effect could be summoned at altitude, but neither had the ability to fly since their movement was not listed with any special caveats, so the stinking cloud would get only one attack before it drifted to the ground and the hand would get one attack as well and if it missed it would also fall to the ground.

We beat them, but our party of 6 took a pretty good beating from only 2 Harpies. (Aura 20?!?!) What do you guys think? and what about other sustained effects like Flaming Sphere?

 

[deadsmurf]

Pretty sure there are no rules for this, and your DM's ruling seems about right.
Now for fun/coolness I would totally allow it based on each spell. Stinking cloud? sure it can fly. Bigby's Icy Grasp? Sure it's a floating hand. Flaming Sphere... no way, it normally gets about by rolling.
It's cool and it makes sense? Sure.

 

[Toriel]

There is nothing in the rules that prevent a power from being used vertically instead of horizontally. Should a ranger using a bow be only permitted to fire at targets on the ground only? Why would a magic spell be treated differently?

Being a DM, I would certainly permit it. The authors clearly state that for this edition, the DM should look at saying yes to most things players want to do.

 

[Ahglock]

I'd rule it based on the special effect of the spell. And I'd do pretty much what Toriel suggested.

Got to say its a corner case but it makes me appreciate magic missile a bit more. Yeesh, 20 square aura. Other than the ranger I'd hate to see my parties odds of hitting with a ranged basic attack.

 

[jodyjohnson]

Harpies are clumsy flyers and take -4 to attacks and all defenses while flying so hitting them at long range for javelin still nets you +2 (-4 to defense, -2 to hit for range). Plus other than the aura, their attacks would be low.

 

[N8Ball]

Harpies are clumsy flyers and take -4 to attacks and all defenses while flying so hitting them at long range for javelin still nets you +2 (-4 to defense, -2 to hit for range). Plus other than the aura, their attacks would be low.

Hmmm. Great catch Jody, I don't think any of us (including the DM) were aware of this. That will definitely make a big difference when we engage the next pair of Harpies.

I'd still like to be prepared if/when we engage another type of flying monster though, since apart from clumsy flyers, it seems to be our achilles heel.

 

[Nail]

I'd still like to be prepared if/when we engage another type of flying monster though, since apart from clumsy flyers, it seems to be our achilles heel.

And the solution is: Missile weapons!

Simple.

As far as your original question: It sure would seem as if a magical floating hand could go up, eh? What, exactly, is pulling it down to near the ground (within 1 square) and yet not forcing it to rest on the ground (as in "the hand lies on the ground")?

 

[Bagpuss]

There is nothing in the rules that prevent a power from being used vertically instead of horizontally.

Well the rules on forced movement probably mean you can't use the hand to drag someone from the sky to the floor. Although there is nothing to stop you summoning the hand at altitude.

 

[N8Ball]

And the solution is: Missile weapons!

Simple.

Crap, we didn't think of that!
We were just using insults and bad names until they collapsed and expired from excessive self pity. It was fun to make them cry though.

Really though, the fighter and Warlord were restricted to Ranged basic attacks (and then running to find their weapons when they threw their last hammer/javelin), the ranger and Cleric were stuck with at-wills, and the Warlock and Wizard were the only ones allowed to use honest-to-goodness encounter and Daily powers. I'd say we were pretty nerfed from our normal potential.

The "clumsy" finding solves this immediate issue, but what about other flying artillery and controllers that can just stay 4-6 squares up and out of range of most of our powers.

 

[Nail]

Crap, we didn't think of that!

Yup.

It's those simple things that you miss..... <jk>

Sadly, I know of more than a few players who have neglected to equip their PCs with missile weapons. It's doesn't help that there are few ranged powers.

...other than insults. Insults work.