Can sustained conjurations and zones fly?

[Nail]

Although there is nothing to stop you summoning the hand at altitude.

What about another conjuration that doesn't "fly" as obviously as a floating hand, though? Say: Flaming Sphere?

 

[Ahglock]

Harpies are clumsy flyers and take -4 to attacks and all defenses while flying so hitting them at long range for javelin still nets you +2 (-4 to defense, -2 to hit for range). Plus other than the aura, their attacks would be low.

Even with that most of my party would miss a lot, or just get a few shots before they ran out of ammo. Outside the ranger Dex just isn't there so bows and other easy ammo weapons are a miss, and when it comes to strength weapons well there are only so many you can carry. Yup, I'd hate to see my party face these.

I'm feeling a Muhahahah moment coming on.

 

[nittanytbone]

This is why every STR based character should purchase a +1 javelin around the mid-heroic tier when such things become affordable, and maybe consider upgrading it to a +2 Dynamic Javelin a few levels later. Never worry about running out of ammo again.

 

[evilbob]

Technically, none of those spells have fly speeds, nor do they mention anything about flying when they are moved. So your DM's ruling (can cast high, but it floats down) seems reasonable.

On the other hand, 4.0 breaks down quickly when fighting in 3 dimensions. The DMG says a little bit about movement while flying, but I couldn't find anything about power use while flying.

Personally, I would probably say that zones can be moved up but conjurations couldn't - just because conjurations "occupy" a square and therefore seem to have more actual weight to them than zones, which are basically just areas of effect (that are often centered higher than the ground anyway). I don't have a RAW citation to back that, however.

 

[Nail]

On the other hand, 4.0 breaks down quickly when fighting in 3 dimensions.

That's the key observation.

Since there's no rule saying you can't target a conjuration up, you can do so.

 

[evilbob]

I'm guessing you're saying you can move a conjuration's target square up, right?

Normally movement is only listed as "movement" and relies on the thing moving to move according to its listed movement (speed) type(s). I would say the issue could be stated as there are no movement (speed) type(s) listed for zones/conjurations.

 

[Nail]

I'm guessing you're saying you can move a conjuration's target square up, right?

I don't see any reason why you couldn't target a square above "ground".

Normally movement is only listed as "movement" and relies on the thing moving to move according to its listed movement (speed) type(s). I would say the issue could be stated as there are no movement (speed) type(s) listed for zones/conjurations.

Agreed.

If you can move the power's effect, the power tells you how far you can move it. So why not up?

Conjurations (IIRC) don't have a "speed", so creature movement rules do not necessarily apply. For example, does a Bigby's Hand have to pay a penalty to move over difficult terrain? Can a Flaming Sphere run? Etc.

If anyone's got some RAW to douse this with, lemme know! (And let's spare the "whatever your DM says" business, 'cause "Yea, we know that.")

 

[Mahali]

Since 4E pretty much ignores the 3rd dimension CS response was the powers go all the way up.

Sounds stupid, but so does not allowing for 3 dimension combat in the game.

I have no problem allowing an effect like Stinking Cloud to be moved vertically, Bigby's is questionable, but I'd allow it too.