Can the rules do this?...

[EricNoah]

Is there a way to make existing D&D rules allow these two situations:

1) You've seen it a hundred times -- two guys dueling hand-to-hand, and one unleashes a flurry of blows that drives the other back. The blows themselves don't hit anyone, they get parried, but the effect is that the first guy gets to move the second guy, and move with him. It's akin to a bull rush but not the same deal.

2) Same two guys, one attacks a particular "side" more heavily and the two combatants, end up switching positions. (They trade 5' squares, essentially).

Should these be class features, feats, general combat maneuvers that anyone can try? Help a fella out here ...

 

[IcyCool]

Is there a way to make existing D&D rules allow these two situations:

1) You've seen it a hundred times -- two guys dueling hand-to-hand, and one unleashes a flurry of blows that drives the other back. The blows themselves don't hit anyone, they get parried, but the effect is that the first guy gets to move the second guy, and move with him. It's akin to a bull rush but not the same deal.

2) Same two guys, one attacks a particular "side" more heavily and the two combatants, end up switching positions. (They trade 5' squares, essentially).

Should these be class features, feats, general combat maneuvers that anyone can try? Help a fella out here ...

The Earthdawn system had something like this that I was considering converting over to d20. It was called "Give ground." Basically, for every 3 feet up to your maximum movement (the system used yards) you gave up, you got to add a bonus to your defense for that turn. You decide how much ground you want to give up, then you and your opponent roll an opposed roll. If you win, you move your character where you want within the distance you gave up, and gain your defense bonus. If you lose, you still gain the bonus to defense, but your opponent moves you where he wants within the distance (with the exception that you wouldn't move over a cliff or into a fire, etc. But your opponent could back you into a corner, or right up to the edge of a cliff). I found the idea very cool.

 

[EricNoah]

Oh that's brilliant -- it gives the defender a choice while giving the attacker a chance to gain superior position. My only concern is allowing the defender to move when it's not his turn -- but D&D's coming a long way with "swift" and "immediate" actions, so it could be done that way. I could see some feats or class features that help out someone who's a little more expert in this strategy (either on the defense or the offense side).

Heck, you could do something similar with certain kinds of reflex saves -- you allow yourself to be "moved" in a line directly from the center of a blast (perhaps a random amount -- you would have little control over where you landed); you gain a bonus to your Reflex save while risking being put in a disadvantageous position. A different kind of "evasion" in a way...

 

[diaglo]

knockback?

maybe a combination improved feint or feint with high bluff skill

 

[jgsugden]

There is a rule in palce that handles this, a bit: The 5' step. In the games I play in, there is a lot of 5' adjusting to avoid flanking, gain terrain advantages, etc ... All you need do is picture the flurry of blows in the middle of the attacks ...

I can see a few ways to do it as feats (these are just suggestions for mechanics ... they have not been tested for balance):

Take Ground: Take a -5 to hit on all attacks you perform this round (as power attack, without the bonus to damage). If you hit a foe, you may perform a bull rush attempt as a free action that does not provoke an AoO. A foe may be moved no moer than 5' each time you hit him. You may not use this feat in the same round you performed a charge.

Give Ground: At the end of your turn, if you have not moved farther than a single move this turn, you may declare your intention to give ground if attacked before your next round's actions. If you do declare your intention to give ground, you get a +2 dodge bonus to AC on the next attack agains you, but you must make a 5' step immediately following the attack, that step must be away from the foe that attacked you and that foe gets a free bonus 5' step immediately following your step. You must take the step away from your foe if possible, even if it takes you over the edge of a cliff. If it is not possible to take the 5' step, you do not gain the dodge bonus to AC or the free movement, though your foe still gains the bonus 5' adjustment.

Battle Switch: During a full attack action, you may make a free bull rush attempt against your foe. If you succeed, instead of pushing your foe back, you switch locations with him. If terrain or other barriers prevent you or your foe from switching locations without cramming, you may not use this feat.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Pressing Attack

I would say it could be a combat manuever: Something like

Pressing Attack: Standard action: (AoO: Yes )
Force your opponent to move 5' as you step into the space they occupy. If you succeed at an Intimidate skill check vs DC 15 + opponents BAB, you control were your opponent moves to. This movement cannot push an opponent over a cliff or into a damage dealing hazard, but the opponent can move to the square you are vacating.

Special: If your opponent is fighting defensively, he gains double benefit from this tactic against an AoO generated by your pressing attack.

Movement draws AoO as normal, so you gain an AoO against your opponent if he had moved during his previous turn. Other combatants may be entitled to AoO's as well.

The ability to control the battlefield is balanced by the potential of drawing multiple AoO's and the use of the skill check.
OTOH, this is the only combat use of Initimidate that I know of

and a Feat:

Improved Pressing Attack {General/Fighter}
You gain +4 to your Intimidate checks in a Pressing Attack and do not draw an AoO from the action. You may still draw AoO's from any related movement.

Thoughts?

 

[Wardo]

For #1, there's the "Inexorable Progress of Dawn" maneuver from the Sun School Tactical Feat (CWar, pg 112). Hit with your first two strikes from a Monk Flurry, and your foe moves back 5 feet. You have the option to move back with him/her/it.

 

[RisnDevil]

I want to say that there was a feat for #2 in Miniatures Handbook, or at least a PrC with the class feature....

 

[Joshua Randall]

I second the notion that there is a feat in MiniHB that allows you to swap places with an opponent. I also think there is a feat that allows you to drive your opponent back -- either in MiniHB or Complete Warrior. But don't quote me.

 

[Ryngard]

Also you could "Bull Rush" and use descriptive text. No need for a new rule set if you can use the mechanics from an already existing rule.

For switching spaces, if my player described the action I'd "probably" have them make a DEX check and spend a move or full-round action and just do it. No need for a feat... a lot of this stuff can be solved by talking with your GM and see if he/she will work with you.