Can the "speak with master" familiar ability be used with a command word trigger?
- Thread starter Thanee
- Start date
James McMurray
First Post
The familiar can only speak with his master, not with items. I would allow a command word to be something suited to a toad's, weasel's, cat's, etc.'s throat. In that case the familiar could activate it but youd need some way of speaking the animal's "language" or mimicing it.
Is there a skill to use with mimicry? Perform perhaps?
Is there a skill to use with mimicry? Perform perhaps?
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Thanee
First Post
Well, it doesn't have to be an entirely new item. Many items have command word trigger. Which language are those in? Common? That's not really specified.
I'm just curious, how others would see this.
And yes, I also prefer raven familiars, because they can speak (more with other humanoids than with items, tho
).
Bye
Thanee
I'm just curious, how others would see this.
And yes, I also prefer raven familiars, because they can speak (more with other humanoids than with items, tho
).Bye
Thanee
Humanophile
First Post
Most command word items require the character to have a given spell on their list. The familiar, barring possibly the Familiar Spell epic feat, has no spell list. Ergo, a familiar with the ability to speak normally (or using a specially made item and the Speak with Master ability) should be as able to use a given command word item as well as a fighter or a commoner.
I might worry a little about wand-bearing familiars becoming an extra combat action, but given the rarity of command-word items that they could use (and the cost of making one as combat-effective as an equivalent wand), I don't see that as too much to worry about.
Edit: Whoops. Meant "spell trigger", said "command word". My rules-lawyer is a little rusty.
I might worry a little about wand-bearing familiars becoming an extra combat action, but given the rarity of command-word items that they could use (and the cost of making one as combat-effective as an equivalent wand), I don't see that as too much to worry about.
Edit: Whoops. Meant "spell trigger", said "command word". My rules-lawyer is a little rusty.
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That's not correct. Something that depends on the spell list is either a spell-trigger item (like a wand or staff) or a spell-completion item (like a scroll). A command word item is usable by almost anyone.Humanophile said:
Most command items are personal enhancements or defenses, like a ring of blinking, or else utility items like a folding boat. At the moment I can't think of a command-activated offensive item (except maybe the decanter of endless water in geyser mode, which is hardly of earth-shattering power). If some wizard wants to spend money on a ring of blinking for his familiar, I would probably allow it.
If some munchkin does manage to find an overly powerful offensive combo, that's easy enough to solve, because an armed familiar makes a tempting and fragile target. ("Caw! Caw! BANG! Oh snap, I'm dead!")
Wands are spell trigger, not command word activated, but maybe they are the same thing, who knows?
Still, most command word items I would say are in the wonderous item category, and few/none of those require you to be able to cast a certain spell.
I think getting little boots of speed for your familiar would be pretty cool actually booties of speed if you will..lol
Edit: aww.. beaten to the punch
Also though, some command words are mental only. Those would easily fall within the realm of 'useable by familiars' without even having to make any stretches of the rules at all.
Still, most command word items I would say are in the wonderous item category, and few/none of those require you to be able to cast a certain spell.
I think getting little boots of speed for your familiar would be pretty cool actually
booties of speed if you will..lolEdit: aww.. beaten to the punch
Also though, some command words are mental only. Those would easily fall within the realm of 'useable by familiars' without even having to make any stretches of the rules at all.
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Doubtful, the ones I have seen in the past were 3rd party and in modules (which are not always known for their ability to use core rules properly).
Effectively they were probably use activated instead of command word. Although they called for forming a particular word in your mind and imagining yourself shouting it. Mental command word activated if you will, but, again, it probably falls more under 'use activated' as far as the core is concerned.
SRD:
Command Word: If no activation method is suggested either in the magic item description or by the nature of the item, assume that a command word is needed to activate it. Command word activation means that a character speaks the word and the item activates. No other special knowledge is needed.
A command word can be a real word, but when this is the case, the holder of the item runs the risk of activating the item accidentally by speaking the word in normal conversation. More often, the command word is some seemingly nonsensical word, or a word or phrase from an ancient language no longer in common use. Activating a command word magic item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
Sometimes the command word to activate an item is written right on the item. Occasionally, it might be hidden within a pattern or design engraved on, carved into, or built into the item, or the item might bear a clue to the command word.
The Knowledge (arcana) and Knowledge (history) skills might be useful in helping to identify command words or deciphering clues regarding them. A successful check against DC 30 is needed to come up with the word itself. If that check is failed, succeeding on a second check (DC 25) might provide some insight into a clue.
The spells identify and analyze dweomer both reveal command words.
Use Activated: This type of item simply has to be used in order to activate it. A character has to drink a potion, swing a sword, interpose a shield to deflect a blow in combat, look through a lens, sprinkle dust, wear a ring, or don a hat. Use activation is generally straightforward and self-explanatory.
Many use-activated items are objects that a character wears. Continually functioning items are practically always items that one wears. A few must simply be in the character’s possession (on his person). However, some items made for wearing must still be activated. Although this activation sometimes requires a command word (see above), usually it means mentally willing the activation to happen. The description of an item states whether a command word is needed in such a case.
Unless stated otherwise, activating a use-activated magic item is either a standard action or not an action at all and does not provoke attacks of opportunity, unless the use involves performing an action that provokes an attack of opportunity in itself. If the use of the item takes time before a magical effect occurs, then use activation is a standard action. If the item’s activation is subsumed in its use and takes no extra time use activation is not an action at all.
Use activation doesn’t mean that if you use an item, you automatically know what it can do. You must know (or at least guess) what the item can do and then use the item in order to activate it, unless the benefit of the item comes automatically, such from drinking a potion or swinging a sword.
Effectively they were probably use activated instead of command word. Although they called for forming a particular word in your mind and imagining yourself shouting it. Mental command word activated if you will, but, again, it probably falls more under 'use activated' as far as the core is concerned.
SRD:
Command Word: If no activation method is suggested either in the magic item description or by the nature of the item, assume that a command word is needed to activate it. Command word activation means that a character speaks the word and the item activates. No other special knowledge is needed.
A command word can be a real word, but when this is the case, the holder of the item runs the risk of activating the item accidentally by speaking the word in normal conversation. More often, the command word is some seemingly nonsensical word, or a word or phrase from an ancient language no longer in common use. Activating a command word magic item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
Sometimes the command word to activate an item is written right on the item. Occasionally, it might be hidden within a pattern or design engraved on, carved into, or built into the item, or the item might bear a clue to the command word.
The Knowledge (arcana) and Knowledge (history) skills might be useful in helping to identify command words or deciphering clues regarding them. A successful check against DC 30 is needed to come up with the word itself. If that check is failed, succeeding on a second check (DC 25) might provide some insight into a clue.
The spells identify and analyze dweomer both reveal command words.
Use Activated: This type of item simply has to be used in order to activate it. A character has to drink a potion, swing a sword, interpose a shield to deflect a blow in combat, look through a lens, sprinkle dust, wear a ring, or don a hat. Use activation is generally straightforward and self-explanatory.
Many use-activated items are objects that a character wears. Continually functioning items are practically always items that one wears. A few must simply be in the character’s possession (on his person). However, some items made for wearing must still be activated. Although this activation sometimes requires a command word (see above), usually it means mentally willing the activation to happen. The description of an item states whether a command word is needed in such a case.
Unless stated otherwise, activating a use-activated magic item is either a standard action or not an action at all and does not provoke attacks of opportunity, unless the use involves performing an action that provokes an attack of opportunity in itself. If the use of the item takes time before a magical effect occurs, then use activation is a standard action. If the item’s activation is subsumed in its use and takes no extra time use activation is not an action at all.
Use activation doesn’t mean that if you use an item, you automatically know what it can do. You must know (or at least guess) what the item can do and then use the item in order to activate it, unless the benefit of the item comes automatically, such from drinking a potion or swinging a sword.
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