Can the Vampire Class make new vampires?

[AbdulAlhazred]

And here I'm going to say "I don't care." The Vampire class is an excellent representation of schlock B-movie vampires who are centred round being a vampire rather than anything else. They don't work for all campaigns. But if you want "Klaus von Hammer, from ze Hammer House of Horror" it's an absolute blast to play, and the Vampire class matches it well. It's a niche class but a useful one and doesn't fit anything else at all well. (The only other way I can see to do it is a specialised Monk build).

Yeah, I agree. The whole "it just isn't a class, it has to be a race!" thing is sort of dubious to start with and is in any case pretty well in hand already with other 'Vampiric' options. Truthfully, vampirism is a vast and various mythology that no one specific game element is ever going to cover every possible aspect of. A DM could easily devise all sorts of variations but I think it is probably asking too much for WotC to try to support all sorts of different variations that will each see pretty limited play time.

Plot based stuff is a pretty large and nebulous bag too. A vampire lord creating lesser vampire servants? Perfectly nice story concept and no more wacky than a cleric founding a temple and having lesser priests or a fighter building a castle and having soldiers and retainers. As with the way Gary handled this kind of thing way back in the 1e days and before. Your followers are a nice asset and can contribute to your character's success, but they are rarely going to be following you around in numbers like an army, and if they do get used that way you're expending a difficult to replace resource.

So maybe a vampire can make lesser vampires but it requires expensive rituals (fluff this however you want). They can come in darn handy but you can't just pop them out and if you lose one there's no easy replacement that isn't a trade off on other things. If a PC does drag one or two along on an adventure they can be CCs and that will work OK.

 

[Wednesday Boy]

And here I'm going to say "I don't care." The Vampire class is an excellent representation of schlock B-movie vampires who are centred round being a vampire rather than anything else. They don't work for all campaigns. But if you want "Klaus von Hammer, from ze Hammer House of Horror" it's an absolute blast to play, and the Vampire class matches it well. It's a niche class but a useful one and doesn't fit anything else at all well. (The only other way I can see to do it is a specialised Monk build).

Please stop saying so many wise things so I can XP you again.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

The Vampire class is an excellent representation of schlock B-movie vampires who are centred round being a vampire rather than anything else. They don't work for all campaigns. But if you want "Klaus von Hammer, from ze Hammer House of Horror" it's an absolute blast to play, and the Vampire class matches it well.

Seeing as how Dracula is a part of most of Hammer's films- and i can't find a single episode of Hammer House of Horror or Hammer House of Mystery and Suspense- I can't agree.

 

[Scribble]

Why does it have to cover EVERY known legend at the same time for an entry in the game to please some?

I don't think that's even possible.

I mean after all the "fighter" class can't do every single thing every single warrior of legend ever did.

Why not start with the base class then add something like a power or a feat or something that brings back minions or something.

 

[Scribble]

Also I find it amusing that the majority of these types of arguments seem to be about stuff that would make the character more powerful, and never about stuff that would hinder him in some way...

It's never:

Why can my character cross running water?
Why can I enter houses and dungeons uninvited?
Why doesn't garlic hurt me?
Why am I not required to speak with a cheesy Transylvanian accent all the time?

Another classic vampirism that's sacrificed for balance!

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Why does it have to cover EVERY known legend at the same time for an entry in the game to please some?

Not so much "EVERY" as "the main Western" legend of vampirism.

Why can my character cross running water?

I think this would have been a good limitation to include.

Why can I enter houses and dungeons uninvited?

Agree with the former but not the latter- too hard to work into the narrative. Besides, it's pretty clear that there are nuances to this part of the legend. Perhaps in the case of the dungeons, they could not enter a sentient creature's lair.

Of course, for this weakness to work at all, the vampire class (*ugh*) would need to have the traditional ability by which they circumvent this limitation- Charming creatures to come to them.. (Their Dark Beckoning power ain't quite it.)

Why doesn't garlic hurt me?

And what about Holy Symbols & turning? All that should all be part of this class' weaknesses.

 

[the Jester]

It might be kind of amusing if a 15th level vampire pc discovered he'd been spawning uncontrolled vampire spawn throughout his career without realizing it.

 

[Scribble]

Not so much "EVERY" as "the main Western" legend of vampirism.

But we have these- the legends also have them as enemies and monsters, and those are in the MM.

This class is something different- so it can and should branch out in my mind.

You're already essentially changing the legends by making them able to be something other then evil beasts.

I think this would have been a good limitation to include.

Maybe- my point though is overall throughout my time DMing, I've had plenty of players argue they should have X ability or power because the legends say they always have it, or it "makes more sense" yada yada... But I can't remember ever having anyone argue they should not have some power or they should suck more.

That just amuses me. Selective legend overlooking.

 

[Scribble]

It might be kind of amusing if a 15th level vampire pc discovered he'd been spawning uncontrolled vampire spawn throughout his career without realizing it.

And now they all want him to pay their way through college.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

But we have these- the legends also have them as enemies and monsters, and those are in the MM.

Yeah...and those are the guys that most people were thinking about when they first heard about playing a vampire in D&D. Sure, you can make a nifty PC with what they delivered, but there's a term for the difference between the the term they used (the very specific term, "vampire", with many accumulated connotations) and what they delivered (a vampire-like undead): bait & switch.

Had they come up with a different name, not only would they have fewer gripes, they might even have some unique IP to work with.
Had they