Can we have a 4e variant of M&M or something like it?

[Dannyalcatraz]

No, its not a power, he's just that strong. Its a stat.

Honestly, its like you guys have a hammer and everything you see is a nail!

Its his Str stat, creatively used, nothing more. When he's swinging a Harley Davidson like a baseball bat, its just an improvised weapon.

 

[Scribble]

No, he's just that strong. Its his Str stat, creatively used, nothing more.

When he's swinging a Harley Davidson like a baseball bat, its just an improvised weapon.

And I think there shows the divide between the game creation styles.

In your eyes (I think?) you seem to see making spider man requires his STR to be always a super high number so he can lift a car or whatever whenever he wants.


In my eyes, this isn't needed, since in the comics we don't constantly see him lifting cars and what not- It might be implied that this is his constant level of strength, but it's only shown when the author feels it appropriate.

So I would make it a power that the player can choose to use up when he feels it appropriate, and just imply that he's that strong whenever he wants (even though it's a power that can't be used ALL the time.)

I understand where you're coming from, but it's just not my style of game. I feel when the power is "always" usable it tends to be used all the time, and it kind of pulls me out of the imagination zone.

(And also makes the game part of the game a lot less fun for me.)

 

[Nahat Anoj]

EDIT - Never mind, I just think it's different perspectives on gaming that are butting heads here.

 

[Scribble]

Actually thinking about it, maybe I misunderstood what you were saying Danny...

I think it could just be the strength score, since the D&D STR stat can be boosted pretty high in character creation. (And a high STR in D&D can lift some pretty crazy stuff.)

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

And I think there shows the divide between the game creation styles.

In your eyes (I think?) you seem to see making spider man requires his STR to be always a super high number so he can lift a car or whatever whenever he wants.


In my eyes, this isn't needed, since in the comics we don't constantly see him lifting cars and what not- It might be implied that this is his constant level of strength, but it's only shown when the author feels it appropriate.

So I would make it a power that the player can choose to use up when he feels it appropriate, and just imply that he's that strong whenever he wants (even though it's a power that can't be used ALL the time.)

I understand where you're coming from, but it's just not my style of game. I feel when the power is "always" usable it tends to be used all the time, and it kind of pulls me out of the imagination zone.

(And also makes the game part of the game a lot less fun for me.)

Then what is the point of having a Str stat at all if not to show how strong a PC is at any given moment?

Spidey's strength isn't just shown in combat when he tosses a cycle around, but also when he catches debris from a building struck in a fight, or thrown projectiles from other similarly strong characters, when he casually crushes something (like a camera to conceal his identity), rescuing a falling bystander, or even when he jumps 30' backwards and up.

He uses his strength all the time- in virtually every issue- he just doesn't always us it to attack.

To me, if Spidey has any 4Ed style powers related to his strength, it would be when he pushes it beyond what we think of as his limits- such as catching or redirecting an 8 ton delivery truck as opposed to catching/throwing an 800lb motorcycle.

When he tries something like that, its exhausting and dangerous- THAT sounds like a daily or the like- some kind of push to his abilities could legitimately be considered a type of 4Ed power.

 

[Scribble]

Then what is the point of having a Str stat at all if not to show how strong a PC is at any given moment?

Spidey's strength isn't just shown in combat when he tosses a cycle around, but also when he catches debris from a building struck in a fight, or thrown projectiles from other similarly strong characters, when he casually crushes something (like a camera to conceal his identity), rescuing a falling bystander, or even when he jumps 30' backwards and up.

He uses his strength all the time- in virtually every issue- he just doesn't always us it to attack.

To me, if Spidey has any 4Ed style powers related to his strength, it would be when he pushes it beyond what we think of as his limits- such as catching or redirecting an 8 ton delivery truck as opposed to catching/throwing an 800lb motorcycle.

Well- see my amendment above, so yeah if we just wanted to give him a high STR with the current D&D style rules that would probably work.

I think you're right- for this one I'd probably just make his strength high to begin with, and let him do other stuff using his powers and STR combined. Like maybe he can use a power that lets him do a blast push attack or something with a motorcycle in addition to damage.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Actually thinking about it, maybe I misunderstood what you were saying Danny...

I think it could just be the strength score, since the D&D STR stat can be boosted pretty high in character creation. (And a high STR in D&D can lift some pretty crazy stuff.)

I think you're right- for this one I'd probably just make his strength high to begin with, and let him do other stuff using his powers and STR combined. Like maybe he can use a power that lets him do a blast push attack or something with a motorcycle in addition to damage.

I think we're on the same page.

Here, the motorcycle becomes the [W] in the attack power's formula.

 

[Scribble]

I think we're on the same page.

Here, the motorcycle becomes the [W] in the attack power's formula.

Yeah- he's probably just pretty high level.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

With a stupid-high Str bonus.

Of course, not even close to as high as guys like the Thing or the Hulk...

Now...the Hulk's upward cascading Str based on his anger might be a bit harder to model- its a Rage with no upper limits.

Green Lantern (the Hal Jordan/Guardians of Oa ones) would also present problems- those rings are essentially artifacts, no matter how you look at them. Their only limits are 1) the user's willpower, 2) the 24 hour charge, 3) the color yellow (or maybe not, depending upon which stories you read) and 4) the remote possibility that you might lose the thing. IOW, essentially, they grant virtually limitless power at will- not too easy to emulate in 4Ed.

 

[Scribble]

With a stupid-high Str bonus.

Of course, not even close to as high as guys like the Thing or the Hulk...

Now...the Hulk's upward cascading Str based on his anger might be a bit harder to model- its a Rage with no upper limits.

Green Lantern (the Hal Jordan/Guardians of Oa ones) would also present problems- those rings are essentially artifacts, no matter how you look at them. Their only limits are 1) the user's willpower, 2) the 24 hour charge, 3) the color yellow (or maybe not, depending upon which stories you read) and 4) the remote possibility that you might lose the thing. IOW, essentially, they grant virtually limitless power at will- not too easy to emulate in 4Ed.

Epic level characters, with epic level artifacts?

I don't actually know enough about GL to really be comfortable in saying much for sure.

I mean I guess you could make it an artifact that also grows with the users level (sort of link that to the idea of users willpower.)

Grants some extra at -wills and some other stuff.


Also one thing I think people forget is that anytime you go from Comic- game, there's going to have to be SOME differences... I mean in comics just like all books/movies etc, the hero either just IS or suddenly becomes, what would be considered a "high level" character in a game. Very rarely do we ever witness the hero gaining levels like in a game.

Usually it's the equivalent of the DM saying the campaign starts at like 10th level, and the players instead of describing their growth period, just said he was instantly this powerful.