D&D 5E Can you choose a Tool Proficiency as a Skill?

[EdL]

As others have said, its up to the DM, but I'd allow it.

 

[pukunui]

They should be skill proficiencies, not tools. Even if you select skills which you already have proficiency, you must select a different one of the same kind.

PHB125 Proficiencies: If a character would gain the same proficiency from two different sources, he or she can choose a different proficiency of the same kind (skill or tool) instead.

Yes, that's the RAW. However, considering that a tool proficiency is general more narrow in application than a skill, it's hardly game-breaking to allow a bard to choose a tool proficiency in place of a skill proficiency.

Right, I mean though, like lets say two sources give you Proficiency in Stealth. Does that mean you can choose any dex-based skill? Even ones outside your class/background/etc... list? I mean, that's pretty cool, but seems open to abuse.

Not just any Dex-based skill but any skill at all. It's also worth pointing out that you don't have to take the two specific skills listed for any particular background. They are, in effect, merely suggestions. You can pick any two skills you want. The only game feature that actually restricts what skills you can pick is your class.

 

[flametitan]

Yes it means you could pick any other skill of your choice.

Almost; the page you reference is specific to Backgrounds, which are supposed to let you pick any two skills anyway. If a class/race feature lets you pick up a skill you already have, the feature needs to note other skill choices, or you've lost a free proficiency. The only case I can think of the PDK 7th level feature only lets you pick up a skill from a very narrow list if you already have Persuasion. It is theoretically possible to have ALL of those skills and Lose the bonus skill proficiency.

That said, chapter 1, page 12 considers the two separate, so it is correct that RAW a skill cannot pick up a tool. Of course, I would imagine most DMs would consider it reasonable to pick up a tool instead, unless it's AL, as any leniency would lead to greater table variation, which defeats the point of Organized Play.

 

[Shiroiken]

By RAW and RAI, I would say no. Tools are really only half-skills, so it would probably be detrimental to do so anyway. Your DM may allow it, but the reverse (skill instead of tool) should never be allowed.

 

[Elliott Farmer]

My DM ultimately didn't allow it. I don't think the rules intended Skill and Tool Proficiencies to be interchangeable, but it isn't particularly specific about it.

 

[Plaguescarred]

Almost; the page you reference is specific to Backgrounds, which are supposed to let you pick any two skills anyway. If a class/race feature lets you pick up a skill you already have, the feature needs to note other skill choices, or you've lost a free proficiency.

If it'd be the case the rules would have said you loose it. While it's explained in Background originally, it touches on the case of gaining the same proficiency from different sources, this regardless of what they are.

 

[flametitan]

If it'd be the case the rules would have said you loose it. While it's explained in Background originally, it touches on the case of gaining the same proficiency from different sources, this regardless of what they are.

There is a point where the PH says that, but it's vaguely worded such that it could be interpreted in other ways:

Your proficiency bonus cannot be added to a single die roll or other number more than once. For example, if two different rules say you can add your proficiency bonus to a Wisdom saving throw, you nevertheless add it only once when you make the save

Now, my interpretation of this statement is that when two features give you a skill proficiency, they refer subject to the general rule that two features giving you a proficiency bonus are not allowed to stack, rather than the specific rules of backgrounds that say you can switch them out if they overlap.

 

[Plaguescarred]

There is a point where the PH says that, but it's vaguely worded such that it could be interpreted in other ways:


Now, my interpretation of this statement is that when two features give you a skill proficiency, they refer subject to the general rule that two features giving you a proficiency bonus are not allowed to stack, rather than the specific rules of backgrounds that say you can switch them out if they overlap.

That talk about adding proficiency bonuses togheter, not gaining proficiency. Its the whole Bounded Accuracy concept and its a different thing trust me.

 

[flametitan]

That talk about adding proficiency bonuses togheter, not gaining proficiency. Its the whole Bounded Accuracy concept and its a different thing trust me.

The closest I can find to your interpretation being a general rule is Mike Mearls saying he'd allow it. Note that according to the Sage Advice Articles, only Jeremy Crawford's rulings on twitter or on the D&D website can be taken as official. If you run it that way at your tables, go ahead, the game probably won't break, however I'm going with the interpretation that 173 refers also to class features that let you add your proficiency bonus to a skill, and you have to be explicitly granted permission to change proficiency from a class feature.

EDIT: tweeted Jeremy Crawford. We'll see what he says.

 

[Athinar]

I believe the Skills are interchangeable with the Tools/Kits if you wish to take a Tool or Kit instead of a true skill but not the other way around; if your class say you are proficient with a tool or a kit you can not change it to a skill but CHANGING PROFICIENCIES

DMG 287
CHANGING PROFICIENCIES
Changing a class's proficiencies is a safe and simple way to modify a class to better reflect your world. Swapping out one skill or tool proficiency for another doesn't make a character any stronger or weaker, but doing so can change the flavor of a class in subtle ways.

Choose your skills wisely young one cause you can only choose that skill one time

class features - choose from the following
racial traits -Tools/skills
background feature - choose 2 skills
Each background gives a character proficiency in two skills. Skills are described in chapter 7. In addition, most backgrounds give a character proficiency with one or more tools. Tools and tool proficiencies are detailed in chapter 5.
If a character would gain the same proficiency from two different sources, he or she can choose a different proficiency of the same kind (skill or tool) instead.