Can you Cleave after a Cup De' Grassey?

[Caliban]

Not stated anywhere. Any melee attack rolls you do make are penalised. Any melee damage rolls you do make are enhanced. But it's not stated that for the damage roll to be enhanced, there must be a correlating attack roll that has been penalised.

If I make an attack roll and miss, I don't make a damage roll. But the attack roll still incurs the penalty. If the bonus to a damage roll is unnecessary for the penalty to an attack roll to apply, why do you feel the penalty to an attack roll is required before the bonus to a damage roll is allowed?

-Hyp.

This is why it's important to note that while a grapple check is not a melee attack roll (and thus is not penalized by using Power Attack), the damage from a successful grapple check is not melee damage either, and thus is not enhanced by Power Attack.

Grapple is it's own wierd little combat sub-system. Oddly enough, you can flurry while grappling, and use the extra attack as a grapple check, and none of your grapple checks are penalized by the flurry penalties, since they aren't attack rolls.

Makes low-level monks pretty effective grapplers.

 

[KarinsDad]

If I make an attack roll and miss, I don't make a damage roll. But the attack roll still incurs the penalty. If the bonus to a damage roll is unnecessary for the penalty to an attack roll to apply, why do you feel the penalty to an attack roll is required before the bonus to a damage roll is allowed?

Just because you choose not to make the damage roll does not mean that you cannot make it. Page 142, Speed up Combat. You can simulataneously make both rolls. Both rolls could be modified, you would just ignore the damage roll.


Also, the entire intent of Power Attack is to risk missing in order to do more damage. So, one direction illustrates nothing about the other direction.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Also, the entire intent of Power Attack is to risk missing in order to do more damage. So, one direction illustrates nothing about the other direction.

Hey, if I'm Power Attacking for 5, I'm three times as likely to miss with my CDG as if I'm not Power Attacking at all...

-Hyp.

 

[KarinsDad]

This is why it's important to note that while a grapple check is not a melee attack roll (and thus is not penalized by using Power Attack), the damage from a successful grapple check is not melee damage either, and thus is not enhanced by Power Attack.

Grapple is it's own wierd little combat sub-system. Oddly enough, you can flurry while grappling, and use the extra attack as a grapple check, and none of your grapple checks are penalized by the flurry penalties, since they aren't attack rolls.

Precisely. If you make a melee attack roll, you can use Power Attack to decrease the melee attack roll and increase the melee damage roll. If you are using other mechanics to hit (e.g. ranged attack roll, grapple check, coup de grace), you cannot use Power Attack to increase the damage roll.

 

[KarinsDad]

Hey, if I'm Power Attacking for 5, I'm three times as likely to miss with my CDG as if I'm not Power Attacking at all...

 

[hong]

For heavens sake people, 100 posts in and noone has bothered to point out that there's an 'e' in the word:

Coupe de gras.

Thank you.

 

[brendan candries]

hong is a trole

I'm in the no cleave camp btw, should this ever come to a vote.

 

[Dthamilaye]

Unless great flyby specifies (like whirlwind attack) that it disallows all extra attacks, then you can cleave immediately after each death. You don't rack up the deaths and then assign the cleaves, unless GFB has a really odd way of expressing itself.

Does it use a single attack roll? If so, the +20 affects all the targets, otherwise it only affects the first target.
As to whether the rules say that situational bonii apply to cleave targets or not... who knows?

Great flyby attack (as I recall it):
GFBA is a full-round action. You make one attack roll and can hit an amount of targets equal to your dexterity modifier while flying in a straight path up to your maximum normal flight movement. The targets must be within your reach during the flyby. Use the same attack roll for each target but make separate damage rolls for each hit. The targets do not get an AoO against you.

It says nothing about preventing any extra attacks. It also specifies that it is one attack roll, which is used for all targets. Also, there is separate damage roll for each target hit.

It's just funny if the True Strike doesn't apply to cleaves, but applies to up to dex bonus of targets with the initial attack roll.

Edit: When I get home, I'll put up the exact wording of the GFBA.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Wow. GFBA is whacked.

Incidentally - if I get an entire page of posts without my argument being refuted, can I declare myself the argument winner?

 

[Trainz]

Why not.

Have a cigar, too.

I gave up on this argument many posts ago, because I feel the rarity of the described event doesn't warrant so many bits and bytes.