Can you cleave after making an AoO?

[malichai]

Pretty simple question really, presented in the subject line. If you possess the cleave feat and strike an opponent down whilst making an Attack of Opportunity, can you then Cleave another opponent? I've read over some other websites and so far have found different opinions. Thanks.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I'm not sure what the official stance on this is. But, were I running, I'd probably restrict Cleave from an AoO to opponents that are actually provoking AoOs. If 3 orcs try to charge past you, sure, cut 'em all down in one might swing. But if they charge past you while you locked in combat with a cagey duelist, I don't see why you should get an extra attack on /him/... (heck, if anything, he should get an extra poke at you while you're wildly hacking away at the orcs).

I find it useful to think of Cleave, not as giving you and additional attack, but as retroactively making the attack which dropped the foe a freebie... Basicly, Cleave should never let you get in an attack that you couldn't have taken /instead/ of the the one that dropped the opponent. Otherwise, you get situations - like the infamous bag o' rats - where it becomes advantageous to conjure up (litterally or figuratively) whimpy opponents so you can wail on the real ones by killing them.

 

[Bobbystopholes]

I see no problem with Cleaving on an AoO. If a guy is next to you, not provoking you, then his buddy runs by, you swing through the buddy, your axe keeps going and catches the other one by surprise. No problem there. You would have to make the attack immediately, so you can't wait till someone else moves by, so to get this to even work, it would have to be an ideal situation. Plus, you can only cleave once per round, so you blew your load for the next round, or if you want to rule it the other way, if you already cleaved that round, you can't cleave then.

Great Cleave on the other hand...

 

[kreynolds]

If you possess the cleave feat and strike an opponent down whilst making an Attack of Opportunity, can you then Cleave another opponent?

Here. I'll just blatantly rip my reply from a post of mine in another Cleave thread...

Cleave is available to use any time you drop an opponent with a blow, even during a whirlwind. Naturally, you are still limited to using it once per round, unless you have Great Cleave.

 

[Valicor]

Yes you can cleave at any time, provided you follow the limitations on the number of times per round.

 

[Storm Raven]

I'm not sure what the official stance on this is. But, were I running, I'd probably restrict Cleave from an AoO to opponents that are actually provoking AoOs. If 3 orcs try to charge past you, sure, cut 'em all down in one might swing. But if they charge past you while you locked in combat with a cagey duelist, I don't see why you should get an extra attack on /him/... (heck, if anything, he should get an extra poke at you while you're wildly hacking away at the orcs).

The official stance is that you can Cleave after an AoO against any available target that is within your reach, since that is the way the text of the feat is written.

 

[AuraSeer]

Cleaving on an AoO must be legal, because it works that way in NeverWinter Nights. (Okay, I know NWN is hardly an official rules source, but it's really cool to watch AoO/Kill/Cleave happen in real time. )

 

[Forrester]

Pretty simple question really, presented in the subject line. If you possess the cleave feat and strike an opponent down whilst making an Attack of Opportunity, can you then Cleave another opponent? I've read over some other websites and so far have found different opinions. Thanks.

This thread has come up a lot. Here's what we'll see in the end:

1) Many will post the absolutely true statement that going strictly by the rules, it is 100% legal to Cleave off of an AoO.

2) Many, however, will point out that This Is Really Dumb, if the secondary target isn't provoking an AoO.

Let's suppose that I'm standing 10' away from a buddy of mine, and we're fighting a big mean ogre. We're both in the Ogre's threat range. I'm ready for the ogre, no prob. But my buddy is a moron and takes out a potion and drinks it, provoking an AoO. The Ogre attacks my buddy, drops him, and then cleaves to attack me.

Huh? What did I do to deserve this? Why should having an idiot friend mean that I can get attacked one extra time? If there was no idiot, there wouldn't have been an extra attack . . . how can having someone 10' away from me drinking a potion make me *more* vulnerable to an attack?

Thus, many, like Tony Vargas (above) and myself, restrict Cleaves off of AoOs to other creatures provoking AoOs, like in a mass charge.

3) Inevitably, after this little common-sense suggestion, drooling morons will respond that This Is The Rules Forum, Not The House Rules Forum, And We Shouldn't Be Saying Such Things. In other words, we should just tell you what the official rules are, regardless how STUPID they might be, or how EASY they are to Rule 0, and leave it at that.


How am I doing, guys?

 

[mikebr99]

Re: Re: Can you cleave after making an AoO?

Let's suppose that I'm standing 10' away from a buddy of mine, and we're fighting a big mean ogre. We're both in the Ogre's threat range. I'm ready for the ogre, no prob. But my buddy is a moron and takes out a potion and drinks it, provoking an AoO. The Ogre attacks my buddy, drops him, and then cleaves to attack me.

Huh? What did I do to deserve this? Why should having an idiot friend mean that I can get attacked one extra time? If there was no idiot, there wouldn't have been an extra attack . . . how can having someone 10' away from me drinking a potion make me *more* vulnerable to an attack?

How am I doing, guys?

You are doing just fine Forrester...

But I would like to point out that you aren't getting Cleaved because your moron of a friend decided to do something stupid... You are getting Cleaved because the monster is that powerful that ALL of his attacks have the potential to cut through an opponent and continue on into the next in line.

 

[Forrester]

Re: Re: Re: Can you cleave after making an AoO?

You are doing just fine Forrester...

But I would like to point out that you aren't getting Cleaved because your moron of a friend decided to do something stupid... You are getting Cleaved because the monster is that powerful that ALL of his attacks have the potential to cut through an opponent and continue on into the next in line.

No, I'm being cleaved because he's a moron. Are you telling me that it's easier to hit someone drinking a potion and carry through to someone 10' away than it is to swing your club through the open air, then hit someone?

The Ogre isn't allowed to do the latter (directly attack me for free) but he can do the former (directly attack me for free after dropping someone else). It's nonsense.