Can you coup de grace with an Inflict Wounds spell?

[Infiniti2000]

CLW cannot be used to CDG in any case other than undead susceptible to critical hits and CDG.

Mass Inflict Light Wounds cannot be used to CDG because it is targeted, not touch/ray (i.e. not a weapon-like spell).

 

[irdeggman]

I have to agree with the inflict wounds spell being used for a CdG (against all but undead) due to the preponderance of evidence to support it. Despite the fact that I don't like it and it really bothers me that the touch attack spell causes a save for 1/2 damage then for the CdG another save is made to avoid death. Both are different save types.

It also bothers me that things that don't cause lethal damage can likewise be used for a CdG (e.g., sap).

But per the RAW and supporting evidence it appears true.

I would not allow rays to be used however since the PHB is real specific on what ranged weapons (bows and crossbows as long as the character is adjacent to the target) can be used while touch attacks (not ranged touch attacks) fall under melee weapons.

 

[atom crash]

I would not allow rays to be used however since the PHB is real specific on what ranged weapons (bows and crossbows as long as the character is adjacent to the target) can be used while touch attacks (not ranged touch attacks) fall under melee weapons.

Just to play devil's advocate for a second, even with ranged weapons in order to CdG you must be adjacent to your target, so how unbalancing would it be to use a ranged touch attack in order to CdG from an adjacent square?

 

[Egres]

I'm still waiting for a RAW based proof of the possibility to CdG with a touch spell.

 

[dcollins]

I'm still waiting for a RAW based proof of the possibility to CdG with a touch spell.

No proof. This one requires interpretation of intent. Namely, there's lots of evidence throughout the rules that a touch attack spell is meant to count as a melee weapon.

 

[Storyteller01]

Also isn't the rule that it takes a full round to do a coup de grace while it only takes a standard action to cast and use an inflict wounds spell?

It only takes a standard action to use a melee weapon in its usual fashion.


Should be possible, provided the spell can do enough damage to drop the target into negatives (assume the target doesn't stabilize and dies). Unlike a melee weapon, you can't pin point where you stabbing the target. You infuse the target with Negative Energy and let the difussion do the rest. (I imagine Coup de Grace consist of striking a helpless foe in an instantly lethal area [slitting the throat, crushing the skull, decapitation, slicing the femorial artery, puncturing the heart, etc).

 

[Storyteller01]

From the SRD -



From the Coup de Grace rules, it is somewhat unclear.

Does a touch attack count as a "melee weapon"? If it doesn't then Monks and various creatures are in trouble. They can't Coup de Grace at all.

Since a spell is not a "melee weapon" in any sense, even a spell delivered with a touch attack, it would seem the answer is "no".

However I'm not sure that's really correct, and I would be inclined to say you can Coup de Grace with any spell you are capable of causing a critical hit with. Causing a critical hit seems the operative part of the coup de grace, and more important than what is used to cause it.

And let's not forget that spellcasters can use Weapon Focus and other related feats (usually reserved for weapons) with specific spell effects (rays and such).

 

[Storyteller01]

I agree with this. You cannot perform a full-round action (coup de grace) and a standard action (cast a spell) in the same round. You'd have to cast the spell and then, in the following round, perform the coup de grace. Or, you need to use a quickened/swift weapon-like spell.

I'd have to ask why? Using a weapon is usually a standard action, yet it still requires a full round action to kill a helpless target...

 

[Storyteller01]

Wow.

I have never seen so many statements without proofs to support them.

You have convinced me.

Egres, if a player attempts to CdG with an improvised weapon (tent spike, large piece of glass, stone block, fist sized rock, etc) how would you rule?

 

[frankthedm]

kinda of wasting an opportunity CDGing with a inflict spell, when you could death knell instead.