Can you hustle while Flying (overland scale)?

[Magus Coeruleus]

Hi there.

If you are using Fly spells for overland movement, can you hustle just as if you were on foot, getting one double-speed hour "for free" and then taking 1, 2, 4, 8, etc. hp subdual damage for each additional hour during which you Fly double speed? I can't see any reason why not but I was hoping to get some comments.

From the SRD:

Hustle: Your character can hustle for 1 hour without a problem. Hustling for a second hour in between sleep cycles causes your character 1 point of subdual damage, and each additional hour causes twice the damage taken during the previous hour.

Fly
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 3, Travel 3
Components: V, S, F/DF
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: 10 minutes/level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)
The spell’s subject can fly with a speed of 90 feet (60 feet if the creature wears medium or heavy armor). The subject can fly up at half speed and descend at double speed. The flying subject’s maneuverability rating is good. Using the fly spell requires as much concentration as walking, so the subject can attack or cast spells normally. The subject of a fly spell can charge but not run, and it cannot carry aloft more weight than its maximum load, plus any armor it wears.
Should the spell duration expire while the subject is still aloft, the magic fails slowly. The subject drops 60 feet per round for 1d6 rounds. If it reaches the ground in that amount of time, it lands safely. If not, it falls the rest of the distance. Since dispelling a spell effectively ends it, the subject also falls in this way if the fly spell is dispelled.

 

[Mahali]

Hi there.

If you are using Fly spells for overland movement, can you hustle just as if you were on foot, getting one double-speed hour "for free" and then taking 1, 2, 4, 8, etc. hp subdual damage for each additional hour during which you Fly double speed? I can't see any reason why not but I was hoping to get some comments.

From the SRD:

Nope. "subject of a fly spell can charge but not run" and hustle is running.

 

[Droogie]

I thought a hustle was a kinda double-time jog, and run was an all-out sprint.

If a flyer can "charge but not run", it sounds like they are capable of bursts of speed.

Realistically, I would allow a flyer to double-time it with subdual damage, but from a rules stand point, I could see this getting abused.




edit: typos

 

[Hypersmurf]

Re: Re: Can you hustle while Flying (overland scale)?

... and hustle is running.

"Hustle: A hustle is a jog that is movement at about six miles per hour for an unencumbered human. The double move action represents a hustle."

In other words, if you prohibit someone with a Fly spell from Hustling, then moving 90ft. in one round requires a full-round action.

If they, for instance, cast a spell and move in the same round, they're limited to 45ft. of movement.

But the spell doesn't prohibit you from hustling, only from running.

-Hyp.

 

[Magus Coeruleus]

Mahali wrote:

Nope. "subject of a fly spell can charge but not run" and hustle is running.

Where do you get the idea that hustle = run? One is a double move and the other is a triple/quadruple (depending on encumbrance) move. There are separate rules for walking, hustling, and running in the overland movement rules, and different distances listed on the travel chart. Maybe you think this because the SRD says:

Run: A character can't run for an extended period of time. Attempts to run and rest in cycles effectively work out to a hustle.

But this doesn't mean that hustling is running. It just means that you can't do an overland run because it would work out to a hustle, i.e. you would move at x2 and not x3/x4. So there are two ways to go x2 overland movement--you can either hustle along, moving consistently at x2 speed, or you can make sprints alternating with rest, which amounts to x2 speed on average. Clearly with the Fly spell you cannot use the latter method to achieve x2 travel distance, but I still don't see why you can't use the former method (albeit with that subdual damage).
Hmm, this makes me think of another question (regarding overland hustle vs. forced march), but I'll post a separate thread for that.

 

[Greybar]

I'm digging up this old thread - courtesy of the search function.

One thing not mentioned is creatures that can fly (i.e. not the Fly spell). My take is that they can hustle, double-time, and do the equivalent of run.

Let's take the Manticore with a Fly speed of 50 (and walk of 30). So it can fly 50ft up to you and attack you. So it should be able to do a double-move of 100ft. Can it do a run of 250ft?

Let's carry that out to something scarier: Can that Wrym White Dragon use a "run-equiv" movement of (4x250ft) 1000ft?

John

 

[Centaur]

From my perspective, as I understand things.

Yes, a person using the fly spell could hustle in overland movement. If he can charge (which is up to double his base move) while flying then he can move at a hustle over large distances.

Yes, flying creatures can move at up to the x4 movement rate, so yes, that white dragon could move 1000ft. in a single round. Now just imagine if he had some equivalent to "Expeditious Retreat" in effect, or was hasted, or worse, both. He could then move from outside your bow range to PB in less that the time it take you to blink twice.

Bloody frightenting if you ask me.

 

[Greybar]

After posting I got out the PHB and stopped looking at the SRD. The PHB looks to be pretty clear on the "Yes". I think when they combined the PHB and DMG sections on movement they accidentially dropped the "flying creatures can hustle" reference.

Note also that the ratio of tactial speed : overland speed if different for dragons than for lesser creatures. For most creatures you get 1mi/hr for every 10"/rnd. Thus 30" = 3mph. Dragons get 250" = 40mph.

John