Can you push an enemy into another enemy's square?

[tgaptte]

Hello,

This came up last night and we weren't sure how to rule:

Fighter (F) hits enemy (E1) with Tide of Iron and tries to push him back one square into a square that enemy 2 (E2) is occupying.

What happens?

1.) F cannot push E1 at all, E2 is blocking
2.) F pushes E1 into E2's square, E2 gets pushed back one and F has option to take E1's previous square
3.) Something else?


---------------------
|***************|
|* F E1 E2********|
|***************|
|--------------------

 

[Baumi]

Since a Push must have a clear path, #1 is correct. But he can still push him diagonal away from him (up-right or down-right).

 

[DracoSuave]

That's not quite true. The enemy can't be pushed into any square it couldn't enter by walking.

So, if you had a push 2, you -could- push the enemy -through- his ally's square, because he -can- enter that by walking so long as that's not his destination. Which it isn't.

However, on a push 1, you can't, because the enemy cannot enter that square as the last square of his movement.

 

[mach1.9pants]

Dracosuave is correct a longer push pull slide can move and enemy through an enemies square as long as he doesn't finish there. You can also push away the one diagonal square as Baumi said

 

[tgaptte]

Thanks for the replies!

T

 

[Bagpuss]

Since a Push must have a clear path, #1 is correct. But he can still push him diagonal away from him (up-right or down-right).

1) F cannot push E1 at all, E2 is blocking

Is not correct, (3) is the correct answer.

Since with a Push he doesn't have to move into E2 space, he could be pushed into the space above or below E2. Both of those squares are 1 move from E1 starting position and farther away from F's starting position.

Push: When you push a creature, each square you move it must place it farther away from you.

 

[-Avalon-]

I personally would point out that the absolute correct rules state the aforementioned statements from other members, BUT, then state I would rule it almost like the falling into a pit issue.

If Target 1 is pushed through target 2's square, then target 2 makes a saving throw to avoid falling down.

If Target 1 is pushed INTO target 2's square then both make saving throw, and only if both are still standing must they be placed in safe adj spaces. If both fail, they are on ground in same space, and if they decide to stand, they must stand up into an adj space as per normal rules.

 

[DracoSuave]

That makes push powers a lot more powerful than they're designed to be. Thunderwave, for example, could be used to knock an entire armada prone using that. Knock each enemy about in a way that they cross each others paths enough and everyone gets knocked prone with a lot of certainty

 

[WampusCat43]

Does nothing happen if the squares on both sides of E2 are, say, rock - there's no legal square to be moved to?

 

[Umbran]

Does nothing happen if the squares on both sides of E2 are, say, rock - there's no legal square to be moved to?

Don't have my book handy, but I think I recall that if there is no legal square to move into, the target is either knocked prone, or gets a save to avoid being knocked prone.