Can you use Spellcraft while casting a Spell?

[Henrix]

To quote the PHB:

"Some skills checks are instant and represent reactions to an event, or are included as part of an action. These skill checks are not actions."

Why is this then not the case while counterspelling?

Why would it take longer, i.e. be a free action, during a counterspell, but a "no action" while not counterspelling?

I think it takes a moment of concentration to identify the spell as it is being cast, akin to making a quick calculation in your head, and not just like noticing that there's a car over there.


But we are not getting anywhere, and probably won't.
I stated that i disagree, and will leave it at that.
I think I have good reasons.

If nothing else, for the sake of all poor DMs out there who'll be plagued with shouts of "I'll make a spellcraft check!" anytime any of their NPCs cast a simple spell.

 

[AGGEMAM]

That is the whole point here, when a skill is 'not an action', it is a reaction, and a reaction is something you cannot choose to do at will, hence it is a free action in the case of counterspelling.

 

[Henrix]

That it is a reaction to something else does not make it a "no action".
If I ready to shoot the wizard if he tries anything, then I will shoot him as a reaction to what he does, but it is still a partial action.

In the case of Spot it is because you always have a chance to notice something in front of your eyes, but if your friend the Cleric is casting a spell, and you don't pay attention, all you'll know is that he seems to be casting a spell. (You'll probably hear the player state what he does, but that is another thing. )

I think identifying a spell being cast is more akin to Search than to Listen. But, I suggest that it is a free action, rather than a standard action, for various reasons.

 

[THAC0]

Why would it take longer, i.e. be a free action, during a counterspell, but a "no action" while not counterspelling?

It doesn't take longer. Free actions and "no actions" take the same time. The only difference is, Free Actions can ONLY be done on your turn, and "no actions" can be done whenever. They are more or less passive-skills (like Spot and Listen).

 

[Artoomis]

It seems to me to be very, very clear that you could very easily rule either way on whether Spellcraft can be used while you are casting a full-round spell.

Both rulings have quite reasonable, rules-based arguments. This is a DM call. That's why DM's make the big bucks.

 

[Piratecat]

Do you have a problem reading ??

Do you have a problem being polite?

I'm pretty sure that it's possible to have rules discussions, even when you diagree with someone, without being rude. Thanks!

 

[ShadowMaster]

In my opinion

In my game everybody can try a spellcraft check (even if it's being cast) to see what spell is being cast or has been cast. Spell Craft is a matter on memory and knowledge.

It change nothing to the game mechanism, or, should I say, it has never changed something to my game. It doen not matter if someone knows that a magic missile is being cast on him or a fireball.

If there is a decision involved with the result, I apply the rule as they are. You have to prepare an action, make a spellcraft check and decide what you want to do.

 

[Magus_Jerel]

I don't think making a spellcraft check would be no action.
I think it is a Free Action, which you only take when you can take another action.

Um - what free action ACTUALLY states is that you only take these free actions in conjunction with other actions. It does NOT state that the "action" need be "your action".

I have been absolutely crucified before as to attempting to argue WHY this is the case - as well as with a couple of points about the initiative system at a very fundamental level - and until certain people get the concept that D&D combat is initiative based and not turn based the argument will fall on deaf ears. I don't have the energy to trot it out again.

He gets this check - as he is attempting to recognize sensory data that he is taking in. The check is not so see if he can "do something" per se, rather it is a case of recognition. A +2 DC modifier for being distracted is probably appropriate.

However, what I don't understand at all is how in the world the character is having to "concentrate on casting a full round spell."

Unless

1. the PC is restricted to partial actions

2. the charater took the "start a full round action" as a partial action

3. The NPC is taking a readied action

It is IMPOSSIBLE for this situation to occur - and that has My "warning bells" going off about wether or not you have the initiative system right in the first place. In all three possible scenarios the character gets the check to recognize what is going on within the normal constraints of finite rounds.

 

[AGGEMAM]

Henrix, PC has pointed out that I was rude to you earlier in this thread for that, please accept my sincere apology, it wasn't my intent, but I'm sure you knew that.

Aggemam

 

[FANGO]

Uhh....people...try reading the spellcraft skill. It's exceedingly clear that it can be used as a reaction to someone else casting a spell. I honestly don't see what the problem is here.