Canadian Federal Elections, eh

[Kramodlog]

I'm curious to see what people have to say about the current marathon elections, the parties and their leaders.

Randomly, here is my not very impartial take on the election and some things that need to be done.

Mesures like the TFSA needs to be capped. Right now it just benefits the rich by giving them another tax break. The UCCB just needs to go. It is a bribe to the Tories' electoral base paid with collective money and has no real social benefits.

The CBC needs to be better funded again, it is a good source of impartial information. No wonder the Tories hate it. Ottawa needs to distance itself from Israel and go back to its more neutral stance. Same with war mongering in the Middle-East. We have to admit that if we had Jihadist terrorism over here, it is partially because of our involvement in conflicts in that region. Plus there is that whole denial of global warming and gimping scientific research because facts hurts the Tories' agenda.

The current length of the elections also points to the Tories putting their interests before the common good. A longer election is harder for the other parties who unlike the Tories are cash strapped. But since half of what the parties spend will be reimbursed by tax payers, a long election means it will be a costlier election for tax payers. So much for the Tories being fiscally responsable. They just want power and will do anything to get it. The rest is rhetoric.

I won't vote for Trudeau's Liberals. He is an opportunist more than a visionary, and I can't vote for a Trudeau after the Night of Long Knives (what the ROC calls the Kitchen Meeting). Before 2011, I always voted for the Bloc Québécois, but that ship has sailed and Québec's independence will be made in Québec, not Ottawa. Since we are still stuck in Canada, might as well vote for a good government.

The NDP's national daycare program is a great idea. Good for parents, women and children. We all benefit from this sort of mesure. We already have such a program in Québec, but we need the money we send to Ottawa to better finance it. In general I like the NDP's platform, even though I was disappointed when they dropped their link to socialism a while back. They still remain pro-union and labor. Let people negociate their collective agreements with employers. No need for the government to step in on day one with a law that prohibites strikes like the Tories have been doing.

So, with these random thoughts, I guess the NDP will be getting my vote this year. I already sent them money.


[sblock=Oh, never forget.] [/sblock]


P.S. If Morrus and co. think this thread might be too inflammatory because of partisanship, close it. No need to make a big fuss over spilled maple syrup.

 

[cmad1977]

Ugh... Nickleback...

 

[Ryujin]

I'm curious to see what people have to say about the current marathon elections, the parties and their leaders.

Randomly, here is my not very impartial take on the election and some things that need to be done.

Mesures like the TFSA needs to be capped. Right now it just benefits the rich by giving them another tax break. The UCCB just needs to go. It is a bribe to the Tories' electoral base paid with collective money and has no real social benefits.

The CBC needs to be better funded again, it is a good source of impartial information. No wonder the Tories hate it. Ottawa needs to distance itself from Israel and go back to its more neutral stance. Same with war mongering in the Middle-East. We have to admit that if we had Jihadist terrorism over here, it is partially because of our involvement in conflicts in that region. Plus there is that whole denial of global warming and gimping scientific research because facts hurts the Tories' agenda.

The current length of the elections also points to the Tories putting their interests before the common good. A longer election is harder for the other parties who unlike the Tories are cash strapped. But since half of what the parties spend will be reimbursed by tax payers, a long election means it will be a costlier election for tax payers. So much for the Tories being fiscally responsable. They just want power and will do anything to get it. The rest is rhetoric.

I won't vote for Trudeau's Liberals. He is an opportunist more than a visionary, and I can't vote for a Trudeau after the Night of Long Knives (what the ROC calls the Kitchen Meeting). Before 2011, I always voted for the Bloc Québécois, but that ship has sailed and Québec's independence will be made in Québec, not Ottawa. Since we are still stuck in Canada, might as well vote for a good government.

The NDP's national daycare program is a great idea. Good for parents, women and children. We all benefit from this sort of mesure. We already have such a program in Québec, but we need the money we send to Ottawa to better finance it. In general I like the NDP's platform, even though I was disappointed when they dropped their link to socialism a while back. They still remain pro-union and labor. Let people negociate their collective agreements with employers. No need for the government to step in on day one with a law that prohibites strikes like the Tories have been doing.

So, with these random thoughts, I guess the NDP will be getting my vote this year. I already sent them money.


[sblock=Oh, never forget.]View attachment 69607[/sblock]


P.S. If Morrus and co. think this thread might be too inflammatory because of partisanship, close it. No need to make a big fuss over spilled maple syrup.

The Conservatives have got to go. It was clear to me, after that first election that Harper won, that they were no better than those whom they replaced. Within the first month they had broken all of the promises that I had actually cared about, that pertained to transparency in government. They have been twice found in Contempt of Parliament. They have demanded that MPs from other parties sign literal blank cheques, thereby ignoring the mandate given them by more than half of Canadian voters. They have passed craven laws that pander to their rich supporters, while playing a shell game with the average voter's tax money (the "universal child care benefit" you mentioned that gives with one hand, while simultaneously clawing back tax breaks with the other; income splitting that greatly benefits those with a large disparity in spousal incomes).

The Liberals become the natural fall-back. They have been, in fact, more fiscally responsible than the misnamed "Conservative Party." Unfortunately they have their own issues like support for Bill C51 (the anti-terrorism bill that's more about taking privacy away from the average person, than it is about stopping terrorism), talking cashiered MPs into floor crossing when there's a very good reason why the Cons don't want them anymore, and poorly phrased speeches that give the Cons great opportunities for the ever popular out of context sound bite for example. Trudeau is making it very hard for me to support his party.

And then you have the NDP. Thomas Mulcair is clearly a charismatic leader for his party. Unfortunately I am at odds with many of the policies that he would want to enact. when you already have an overtaxed populace and are staring recession in the face, I don't really think that's the time to increase taxes and spending. Quebec has paupered itself for things like that daycare and it's the most taxed Province in the country. If transfer payments ended Quebec would be bankrupt in months, trying to pay for that sort of thing. We don't need to do that to the rest of the country.

I almost put myself forth on the Rhinoceros Party ticket just so that I'd have someone to vote for, who I might possibly be able to trust. I'm already a card-carrying member. My platform would have been a return to the Feudal System in name, rather than just in practice.

Ugh... Nickleback...

I admit it. I like their stuff. Someone has to.

 

[Kramodlog]

And then you have the NDP. Thomas Mulcair is clearly a charismatic leader for his party. Unfortunately I am at odds with many of the policies that he would want to enact. when you already have an overtaxed populace and are staring recession in the face, I don't really think that's the time to increase taxes and spending.

Which taxes for the poor and the middle class does the NDP want to raise?

Spending is a good thing to do in a recession. It drive the economy foward and saves jobs, while the private sector is struggling to do so. Cutting spending during a recession is bad, as you take money and jobs out of an economy who already needs them.

The problem of deficite at Ottawa comes from the Tories lowering taxes. That creates a structural deficite when the economy slows down. The current ideology ask that cuts to spending and taxes be done to balance the budget. Eventually it is balanced and surplus are made. Because the ideology says surplus are bad, taxes are cut again and the cycle continues. All the taxes the Tories have cut are in part responsable for the deficite problems Ottawa is facing.

Quebec has paupered itself for things like that daycare and it's the most taxed Province in the country.

That is what is repeated ad nauseum, but doesn't reflect reality. Québec has some of the lowest corporate and business tax rate in the federation. The problem is that low taxes do not mean corporations will automatically invest in your province or country. Low taxes as always good is ideology more than reality.

The services we pay actually increase our quality of live and is good for the economy. Take the daycare program. It lets women go back to work earlier than in other provinces and countries. That means more income, more money spent and more taxes. A study shows the program actually pays for itself and then some. http://affaires.lapresse.ca/201204/13/01-4514921-les-garderies-a-7-sont-rentables-pour-le-quebec.php

If transfer payments ended Quebec would be bankrupt in months, trying to pay for that sort of thing.

We send money to Ottawa to pay for stuff we already pay at the provicial level, like say the the ministry of health. Our debt isn't that high if we substract assets like Hydro-Québec. The myths surrounding Québec's economy is due in part to right wing ideologues who just want to favor the rich, and to scare us so that we won't leave the federation.

 

[Ryujin]

Which taxes for the poor and the middle class does the NDP want to raise?

Get any of the candidates to clearly define "Middle Class" and I'll have an answer for you. Hint: It's not the same in Charlottetown as it is in Toronto or Vancouver.

Spending is a good thing to do in a recession. It drive the economy foward and saves jobs, while the private sector is struggling to do so. Cutting spending during a recession is bad, as you take money and jobs out of an economy who already needs them.

It is if you have the money, or at the very least the wherewithal to repay it. We currently don't largely due to the current government's fascination with selling off chunks of our land, in the form of ore, oil, etc., over manufacturing and research.

The problem of deficite at Ottawa comes from the Tories lowering taxes. That creates a structural deficite when the economy slows down. The current ideology ask that cuts to spending and taxes be done to balance the budget. Eventually it is balanced and surplus are made. Because the ideology says surplus are bad, taxes are cut again and the cycle continues. All the taxes the Tories have cut are in part responsable for the deficite problems Ottawa is facing.

I'm not for cutting the budget, but rather rationalizing it. I'm also all for increasing the GST back up to what it used to be. I'm tired of being paid off with my own money. It's raining cash, but it's coming from a hole in my wallet. Let's look at paying for what we are currently using, before we decide to start spending on MORE.

That is what is repeated ad nauseum, but doesn't reflect reality. Québec has some of the lowest corporate and business tax rate in the federation. The problem is that low taxes do not mean corporations will automatically invest in your province or country. Low taxes as always good is ideology more than reality.

Quebec has a rather different world view than does the rest of the country, where it's concerned. Then again so does Toronto, so we're on pretty equal footing there.

The services we pay actually increase our quality of live and is good for the economy. Take the daycare program. It lets women go back to work earlier than in other provinces and countries. That means more income, more money spent and more taxes. A study shows the program actually pays for itself and then some. http://affaires.lapresse.ca/201204/13/01-4514921-les-garderies-a-7-sont-rentables-pour-le-quebec.php

Sorry, I lost my French decades ago. It is, however, rather easy to find contrary opinions.The problem with pointing to successes in other countries, is that Canada isn't those other countries. Trust me; in Ontario we're quite aware of the 'successes' from trying to implement what works elsewhere, without considering the surrounding economy or culture. As above, let's work on paying for what we're already using before we start throwing money at perceived problems.

We send money to Ottawa to pay for stuff we already pay at the provicial level, like say the the ministry of health. Our debt isn't that high if we substract assets like Hydro-Québec. The myths surrounding Québec's economy is due in part to right wing ideologues who just want to favor the rich, and to scare us so that we won't leave the federation.

So do we, in Ontario, to an even greater degree. I'm no "right-wing ideologue." I'm someone who sees a lot of money going out the door, with each cheque, and seeing an awful lot of poor spending in return. I'm also someone who tends to be fiscally conservative, socially liberal, and works in higher education which means that I work on a daily basis to try and only spend the money that I see as being necessary, instead of burning through public funds with false economy.

 

[Legatus Legionis]

I can't vote Liberal.
Having a party "leader" who won the leadership not on a platform but because of a last name, and then dictating to the party that any votes in the House of Commons has to be on his party views (ie. no democratic voting for elected party members) is not right. Nor his views on many things I am against personally.

I can't vote NDP.
Spending money recklessly with no regards to a "balanced budget". Spend lots now, let someone else worry about the consequences later.

I can't vote for the minor parties.

That only leaves the Conservatives.

Tis a no-win situation.

 

[Kramodlog]

Get any of the candidates to clearly define "Middle Class" and I'll have an answer for you. Hint: It's not the same in Charlottetown as it is in Toronto or Vancouver.

Heh, that isn't a bad point. Middle class is hard to define. But it isn't just that. It is capital gain that needs to be taxed more. And corporations. Corporate cash reserves are huge (630 billions in just one quarter of 2014). That money would certainly help the economy and finance one or two social programs.

It is if you have the money, or at the very least the wherewithal to repay it. We currently don't largely due to the current government's fascination with selling off chunks of our land, in the form of ore, oil, etc., over manufacturing and research.

At the federal level the money is there. Ottawa was going toward a surpluses before the economy went downward. The deficite wouldn't be an issue if taxes hadn't been slashed like they have. Ottawa has been swimming in money since the start of the federation. It has none of the important responsabilities that are healthcare and education, and certainly doesn't invest much in the army. It is in the best postion to launch social programs. That helps level the standard of living between provinces, which is one reason to have a federation in the first place.

I'm not for cutting the budget, but rather rationalizing it. I'm also all for increasing the GST back up to what it used to be. I'm tired of being paid off with my own money. It's raining cash, but it's coming from a hole in my wallet. Let's look at paying for what we are currently using, before we decide to start spending on MORE.

Sales taxes like the GST are terrible. They are regressive taxes that only benefit the rich and it people with middle and low income the hardest. Scrap sales taxes and go with a progressive income tax. Same with user fees. These are just taxes transfered from the rich to the rest of us.

Quebec has a rather different world view than does the rest of the country, where it's concerned. Then again so does Toronto, so we're on pretty equal footing there.

I'm not even sure what your point is in reguards to Québec's low taxes and low corporate investments.

Sorry, I lost my French decades ago. It is, however, rather easy to find contrary opinions.

The opinion text doesn't contradict the study that says the program helps increase the GDP of Québec by having women go back to work. It helps women too by giving them the opportunity to be financially independent.

The problem with pointing to successes in other countries, is that Canada isn't those other countries. Trust me; in Ontario we're quite aware of the 'successes' from trying to implement what works elsewhere, without considering the surrounding economy or culture. As above, let's work on paying for what we're already using before we start throwing money at perceived problems.

Childcare is a real issue that affects women and children, but society as a whole too. Putting kids who are in disadvantaged families in public daycares helps with their nutrition and developpement. It improves the chances these kids realize their full potential and we all benefit from that.

Before 2008, the budget in Québec was balanced. We were paying for what we were using. It is just that capitalism has cyclical crisis that some people, motivated by ideology rather then facts, think can be solved by austerity.

So do we, in Ontario, to an even greater degree. I'm no "right-wing ideologue." I'm someone who sees a lot of money going out the door, with each cheque, and seeing an awful lot of poor spending in return.

That doesn't mean the issue is that the cheque you are sending is too big.

Often people who are well off, do not see why social programs are needed because they do not benefit directly from them. It is why so many libertarians are white males who are well off. Of course they do not see the need for government. They are privilege.

 

[Kaodi]

I am not sure there is any topic so likely to lead directly to me being suspended as the Canadian election.

Have you noticed we already have one poster who will not vote for Trudeau because of his last name and another poster who complains that he only got the job because of his last name? I mean, Jesus Christ. I was a Liberal and quit the party during that leadership race but as far as I am concerned nepotism applies to behaviour both for and against and both are equally intellectually bankrupt. If you cannot even be bothered to come up with a reason not to vote for Trudeau that does not centre on his name being Trudeau do us all a favour and quit watching politics now and leave the adults to make the decisions.

 

[Ryujin]

Heh, that isn't a bad point. Middle class is hard to define. But it isn't just that. It is capital gain that needs to be taxed more. And corporations. Corporate cash reserves are huge (630 billions in just one quarter of 2014). That money would certainly help the economy and finance one or two social programs.

To the Cons, Middle Class seems to mean anyone making $150K to $250K. At least that seems to be who they are aiming their benefits for the Middle Class towards. That's not me.

I can't disagree with the idea of greater capital gains taxes. There's a lot of money that people have just sitting around, earning more money, the proceeds of which don't seem to be adequately taxed. The tax breaks that the Cons have given to big business, when we already seem to have some of the lowest corporate taxes going, aren't exactly helping things either. The principals of large corporations are pocketing the difference rather than putting it back into the economy. Trickle-Down Economics is a thoroughly debunked concept.

At the federal level the money is there. Ottawa was going toward a surpluses before the economy went downward. The deficite wouldn't be an issue if taxes hadn't been slashed like they have. Ottawa has been swimming in money since the start of the federation. It has none of the important responsabilities that are healthcare and education, and certainly doesn't invest much in the army. It is in the best postion to launch social programs. That helps level the standard of living between provinces, which is one reason to have a federation in the first place.

A lot of the money that they've been "swimming in" was borrowed against the future. It's time that we started paying down the debt, so that we aren't mortgaging our children's futures. You don't plan a vacation if you can't afford the rent and groceries.

Sales taxes like the GST are terrible. They are regressive taxes that only benefit the rich and it people with middle and low income the hardest. Scrap sales taxes and go with a progressive income tax. Same with user fees. These are just taxes transfered from the rich to the rest of us.

I disagree. When properly applied such taxes impact those with disposable income, far more than those who are just getting by. Especially so when you also tax things like capital gains and set your income tax rates appropriately. Right now wealthy people are paying income tax at a significantly lower rate than even the great robber barons of the late 19th and early 20th century did. The disparity between wealthy and regular folk is an ever widening gulf.

I'm not even sure what your point is in reguards to Québec's low taxes and low corporate investments.

Low corporate and business tax rates. High tax rates on private citizens.

The opinion text doesn't contradict the study that says the program helps increase the GDP of Québec by having women go back to work. It helps women too by giving them the opportunity to be financially independent.

Childcare is a real issue that affects women and children, but society as a whole too. Putting kids who are in disadvantaged families in public daycares helps with their nutrition and developpement. It improves the chances these kids realize their full potential and we all benefit from that.

The point is that everyone has a study and statistics can be spun pretty much any way that you want to.

Yes, child care, etc., etc.... I would really like for people to start looking at their own finances and stop picking my pocket, to decide how they're going to create their family. Don't create a family that you can't afford.

Before 2008, the budget in Québec was balanced. We were paying for what we were using. It is just that capitalism has cyclical crisis that some people, motivated by ideology rather then facts, think can be solved by austerity.

That's a matter of opinion. Think "transfer payments."

That doesn't mean the issue is that the cheque you are sending is too big.

Often people who are well off, do not see why social programs are needed because they do not benefit directly from them. It is why so many libertarians are white males who are well off. Of course they do not see the need for government. They are privilege.

I didn't say that it was. I have mentioned rationalization of spending, for example. It's just that the default government position seems to be going back to the trough, rather than checking to see if the current funds are being spent appropriately. I've been poor. Dirt poor. As in only had one pair of pants and couldn't leave the house on laundry day poor. I'm doing OK now. That gave me the perception that you don't spend money that you don't have, on things that you can't afford, until you can cover your current costs. Again; rationalize spending.

 

[Janx]

canada has a government?

I thought you guys were powered by Maple Syrup forming some kind of polite symbiotic cooperative.