Silverblade The Ench
First Post
From my thread in 4th ed forum, just tweak for cannons (damage as per catpaults, usually need line of effect but not always due to arc of fire)
http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-fan...teaching-d-d-4th-edition-bunch-grognards.html
Seige weapons are are hellishly nasty, but only the light ballista, in real life, could target a single guy! unrealistic to suggest they could do otherwise, short of magic, like the "Helmseeker" projectiles in Spelljammer.
You can't use At-Wills or Dailys with them, and logic dictates high damage expression table, but slow to re-load. So it's balanced.
Range would normally be beyond a typical encounter's size, practically oh up to 100 squares! 200 to 400 yards was their typical ranges.
Catapults though, can't fire close up due to their arc of fire, so no shots closer than 10 squares, to allow them to be used on encounters.
make them slow to recharge so:
this shows the ballista penetrating multiple attackers, as they did in RL, and shear through objects, even light stone.
Got a pic in one of my books from Pompei where a siege left bloody big holes, like heavy machine gun bullets, in the town's stone wall, from an early seige
An archeaological dig in England found a ballista bolt had went over 200 yards punched through a pallisade log and stuck in the spine of a defender...ick!
flaming oil or single stones from such bounce, burst on impact etc and take out an area of effect.
FYI, a cannon in iirc the US Revolutionary War?? took out 47 folk in 1 hit...cannons though on most battlefields were usually lighter 6 to 18 pounders (weight of shell), not the huge set pieces on ships and forts.
trebuchets could throw up to 300lb weight rocks to near 400 yards so they are just as damn nasty to be hit by, lol
such projectiles simply obliterate walls, gates etc, unless massively reinforced.
, hence, forcing a re-roll and taking the worst, is easier.
the attack roll:
the light ballista alone can fire against living targets (short of say, a Gargantuan entity that's slow!)
however normal weapon feats, weapon focus etc, for ballistae and catapults, would give usual to hit/damage bonuses. Such professional folk would be in high demand in armies, ships, Spelljammers etc
In RL, the light ballistae was often used to snipe and kill enemy officers, or keep firing through doorways etc
so this generally means that catapult's first shot will often miss, as you'd expect. The burst effect still may hit the victim though.
Crews will often use the Ready action to wait until an enemy reaches a square they have previously sighted in on. On a castle with well drilled troops, they'd be sighted in on every damn square from long practice, on a battlefield etc it's more likely markers would be left, like a pile of stones painted white on the side only the weapon crew can see.
If you combine that with some nasty type of terrain like Blood Rock or even just hindering terrain so they cna't get way quickly, yikes!
for further variation, catapults could throw the equivalent of "grape shot", rather than one or a few larger rocks. That is, to hurl lots of smaller stones the size of half-bricks, to hit more victims, as anti-personnel weapons.
these would increase the burst size 1 step, but reduce the damage down 1 step as well.
In reality, say on the Fields of Pelenor in the Lord of the Rings cycle, firing ruddy great chunks of entire buildings against orc infantry is stupid!
You can only kill something ONCE (ahem, undeath excepted hehe), so only enough damage to kill or maim one orc, is all ye need,!
It's much better to splatter 100 orcs with 500 half-bricks, than turn 20 to mush with 15' foot of masonry, lol.
same principle is why cluster bombs and napalm are used vs infantry, not ruddy great bunker busters.
so, in the end, damage is based on level, and affects an area
The siege weapons should be treated like creatures if they are attacked, the bigger ones would have damage resistance versus AC attacks or lot sof hit points at yer prefference. Area attacks would be more useful. So I'd go DR 5vs AC , and vulnerability 5 vs Fire (dry wood, rope that can easily catch fire, and God help you if you are near a ballistae or mangonel if the rope snaps! Reflex attack or High damage! in burst 1 around wepaon)
The Crew would be minions, except the "weapon captain", who'd always be an artillerist, a trained soldier etc and thus harder to take out. Probably a "Leader" type. With maybe powers like "Quick Load!", encounter, re-roll recharge dice of their weapon.
Fire, hornets nests and other such nasty weapons would leave a zone of fire, poison or other damage until end of the Next round (or longer), equal to the original burst size. Doing 5 hp damage per tier of of the weapon crew to anyone who enters the zone.
Another nasty load is caltrops. while doing no damage to anyone except the unlucky beggar who gets hit in the initial square (usual catapult damage and turned into a human cactus, lol!), these are bags of many hundreds of caltrops, they burst over the area same as typical catapult of it's type does, leaving caltrops that last until end of the encounter (and longer!)
Caltrop damage I leave up to you and depending on which rule you like for them.
personally I like an attack versus Reflex, they can't kill minions, 1 hp otherwise, Slow the victim until they are healed.
I love Spelljammer, I think about such stuff a lot
http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-fan...teaching-d-d-4th-edition-bunch-grognards.html
Seige weapons are are hellishly nasty, but only the light ballista, in real life, could target a single guy! unrealistic to suggest they could do otherwise, short of magic, like the "Helmseeker" projectiles in Spelljammer.
You can't use At-Wills or Dailys with them, and logic dictates high damage expression table, but slow to re-load. So it's balanced.
Range would normally be beyond a typical encounter's size, practically oh up to 100 squares! 200 to 400 yards was their typical ranges.
Catapults though, can't fire close up due to their arc of fire, so no shots closer than 10 squares, to allow them to be used on encounters.
make them slow to recharge so:
light ballista crew 2,, Normal Damage Expression High table
medium ballista crew3Limited Damage Expression Low table, 2 targets in burst 2
heavy ballistaLimited Damage Expression Medium Table, 4 targets in burst 3Always crit on unanttended objects
this shows the ballista penetrating multiple attackers, as they did in RL, and shear through objects, even light stone.
Got a pic in one of my books from Pompei where a siege left bloody big holes, like heavy machine gun bullets, in the town's stone wall, from an early seige
An archeaological dig in England found a ballista bolt had went over 200 yards punched through a pallisade log and stuck in the spine of a defender...ick!
light catapult, crew3,
medium catapult, crew 4,
heavy catapult (the big trebuchets) crew 6,
Always crit on an unattended object
flaming oil or single stones from such bounce, burst on impact etc and take out an area of effect.
FYI, a cannon in iirc the US Revolutionary War?? took out 47 folk in 1 hit...cannons though on most battlefields were usually lighter 6 to 18 pounders (weight of shell), not the huge set pieces on ships and forts.
trebuchets could throw up to 300lb weight rocks to near 400 yards so they are just as damn nasty to be hit by, lol
such projectiles simply obliterate walls, gates etc, unless massively reinforced.
losing crew slows attacks down, forcing a re-roll is easier to work out than say, worsening it by 1 on the dice, and the heavy catapult is slowest you can get anyway at
, hence, forcing a re-roll and taking the worst, is easier.the attack roll:
the light ballista alone can fire against living targets (short of say, a Gargantuan entity that's slow!)
with no proficiency bonus, due to fact you can't really "wield" one due to size etc...but on the other hand, it punches clean through armour like a tin can so hits vs Reflex.
however normal weapon feats, weapon focus etc, for ballistae and catapults, would give usual to hit/damage bonuses. Such professional folk would be in high demand in armies, ships, Spelljammers etc
In RL, the light ballistae was often used to snipe and kill enemy officers, or keep firing through doorways etc
so this generally means that catapult's first shot will often miss, as you'd expect. The burst effect still may hit the victim though.
Crews will often use the Ready action to wait until an enemy reaches a square they have previously sighted in on. On a castle with well drilled troops, they'd be sighted in on every damn square from long practice, on a battlefield etc it's more likely markers would be left, like a pile of stones painted white on the side only the weapon crew can see.
If you combine that with some nasty type of terrain like Blood Rock or even just hindering terrain so they cna't get way quickly, yikes!
for further variation, catapults could throw the equivalent of "grape shot", rather than one or a few larger rocks. That is, to hurl lots of smaller stones the size of half-bricks, to hit more victims, as anti-personnel weapons.
these would increase the burst size 1 step, but reduce the damage down 1 step as well.
In reality, say on the Fields of Pelenor in the Lord of the Rings cycle, firing ruddy great chunks of entire buildings against orc infantry is stupid!
You can only kill something ONCE (ahem, undeath excepted hehe), so only enough damage to kill or maim one orc, is all ye need,!
It's much better to splatter 100 orcs with 500 half-bricks, than turn 20 to mush with 15' foot of masonry, lol.
same principle is why cluster bombs and napalm are used vs infantry, not ruddy great bunker busters.
so, in the end, damage is based on level, and affects an area
The siege weapons should be treated like creatures if they are attacked, the bigger ones would have damage resistance versus AC attacks or lot sof hit points at yer prefference. Area attacks would be more useful. So I'd go DR 5vs AC , and vulnerability 5 vs Fire (dry wood, rope that can easily catch fire, and God help you if you are near a ballistae or mangonel if the rope snaps! Reflex attack or High damage! in burst 1 around wepaon)
The Crew would be minions, except the "weapon captain", who'd always be an artillerist, a trained soldier etc and thus harder to take out. Probably a "Leader" type. With maybe powers like "Quick Load!", encounter, re-roll recharge dice of their weapon.
Fire, hornets nests and other such nasty weapons would leave a zone of fire, poison or other damage until end of the Next round (or longer), equal to the original burst size. Doing 5 hp damage per tier of of the weapon crew to anyone who enters the zone.
Another nasty load is caltrops. while doing no damage to anyone except the unlucky beggar who gets hit in the initial square (usual catapult damage and turned into a human cactus, lol!), these are bags of many hundreds of caltrops, they burst over the area same as typical catapult of it's type does, leaving caltrops that last until end of the encounter (and longer!)
Caltrop damage I leave up to you and depending on which rule you like for them.
personally I like an attack versus Reflex, they can't kill minions, 1 hp otherwise, Slow the victim until they are healed.
I love Spelljammer, I think about such stuff a lot
