Capturing a Party... A call for experienced DMs

[Calico_Jack73]

What ways have you gone about capturing a party without killing them? I was thinking that a Command Spell to "Sleep" on a PC in melee combat with an enemy would allow that enemy in the next round to make a "Subdual" CDG Full Attack action in the next round. If they fail the Fortitude save from it they'd instead be considered to be dropped to -1HP by Subdual damage and unconcious until they'd healed the Subdual. Considering the Will save of most Warriors that seems like a sound tactic.

What other ways would you go about capturing a party in such a way as to be seen as "fair" rather than an instance of railroading?

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

What other ways would you go about capturing a party in such a way as to be seen as "fair" rather than an instance of railroading?

You mean that you want your characters to get captured, without them being able to escape the battle during which they get captured, and not call it railroading?

I'm not saying railroading is automatically bad, but I have a hard time imagining a way that wouldn't be considered railroading...

Perhaps you could get them to surrender (if they're clearly outnumbered and out-powered)? Or if the bad guy gets a hostage (in a plausible way)?

Of course, if you're just looking for ways to take out some characters without necessarily killing them, non-lethal damage and Will-save spells (command, sleep, hold person, charm person) are usually the way to go...

AR

 

[Peskara]

What other ways would you go about capturing a party in such a way as to be seen as "fair" rather than an instance of railroading?

IME, there isn't one. Two DMs I have played under have tried. Both times the party would rather fight it out to the death than be captured. Maybe you could try hinting that there might be some benefit to being captured, such as having a chance to rescue another prisoner or getting some inside information.

Other than that, I think your best options are to either skip the capturing and have them wake up in prison with vague memories of the fight, or have the captors fight it out using all subdual damage, and incapacitating spells, or use poison. Poison with a high DC that does a lot of temporary ability damage or just plain causes sleep or paralysis could work.

 

[drunkmoogle]

Command Spell to "Sleep" on a PC

I don't know of anyone who could fall asleep in one round...

And if you're using 3.5 Command your options are limited.

Anyways, back to the question

Killing = Illegal and Evil.

Lawful types aim to capture once they weaken the party except in instances of war (not that the PCs return the favor ). Good types show mercy towards non-evil characters. If the party is facing of Lx or xG NPCs, alignment is reason enough to not kill the PCs.

Sometimes the BBEG needs to extract information from the party, in which he explicitly instructs his mooks not to kill the party. However, you really should give the PCs a chance, combat or non-combat, to avoid capture.

 

[Thanee]

If the enemy actually has a reason to capture them, it's surely fair, if they use methods available to them to do so.

Keep in mind, what the enemy knows about the party, so you don't 'metagame' by using abilities tailored to work against the parties weak spots.

Sudual damage works fine as do many spells that render a target helpless, catching only one party member helpless and threatening with a coup de grace, while telling the others to surrender might work as well.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Calico_Jack73]

You mean that you want your characters to get captured, without them being able to escape the battle during which they get captured, and not call it railroading?

I'd call it railroading if I just stated that they were captured without allowing them the benefit of a combat or at least saving throws against the spells cast at them. If they escape the situation, good for them... I can adapt the story.

 

[Gilladian]

I've discovered that "enforced surrender" is usually the only method that works reliably. Even then, you risk one hotheaded PC acting on his own and getting the hostage killed.

I'm about to try a similar scenario on my PCs; they're on a small merchant ship which is actually a sometime slaver/pirate vessel. They'll be given drugs in their supper stew, with the intent that the adept/seawitch can then break into their cabin and take the sorceress hostage. Once she's got a knife at her throat they hope to remove her from the cabin, hide her in a secret hold with a guard, and force the others to surrender or risk her death.

If the PCs avoid the trap, good for them.... If not, I could be designing a pirate lair on the spot!

Gilladian

 

[evildmguy]

Um . . .

Talk to your players? Tell them you have an idea but it involves their characters being captured. Ask how they want their characters to be captured. If they want to fight it out, use non lethal attacks, sleep and paralysis poisons and will save spells as someone suggested. If they don't, have at least two or three times their number in guards show up to capture them and lead them off. Heck, maybe the players will help you plan how to capture their PCs! Get ideas from them and they will probably be more willing to go along with it!

I think the reason that players are very leary of this is because of the importance of items. Take away a 4th level, or higher, character's equipment, and a big part of the character is now gone. Tell your players you aren't going to ruin or destroy any of their equipment and work toward them recovering their items by the end of the session they are captured. If it can't be done that session, tell them you are working toward that goal and they won't lose anything.

After they see that they can trust you not to mess with their characters, they will be more open to these types of situations. It might be that you can tell them they know they are going to be overwhelmed if they fight but they know if they surrender they will be treated well. (This would be something else to set up: Rules for fighting and surrendering in your game and how it is handled by the various peoples.)

Having said all of that, I would highly suggest not using a known evil villain or monster when doing this. Being captured by drow or beholders is probably never a good thing. However, being captured by city guards or even the thieves guild while not the best situation isn't the worst either.

Communication is the key! Let the players know it is for the story and it will make sense! That will make them more likely to go along with the idea.

A few coppers for you. I hope they help!

Have a good one! Take care!

edg

 

[diaglo]

only had bad experiences with this as a player.

one DM used DC 30 sleep bombs against 3rd lvl PCs.... like any of us could roll a save.

later we found the bombs and used them against everyone and everything... just to get the DM to realize how stupid and broken they were.

 

[hong]

only had bad experiences with this as a player.

one DM used DC 30 sleep bombs against 3rd lvl PCs.... like any of us could roll a save.

later we found the bombs and used them against everyone and everything... just to get the DM to realize how stupid and broken they were.

It's like a character-building experience for DMs.