Carrying capacity: Too generous?

[docdoom77]

So, I've pretty well read through the whole thing now (I'll have to go over magic a few times before it clicks) and I'm concerned that carrying capacity is too generous.

I mean, 90 lbs on the 'average' guy before he begins to feel it? I work out (lift weights) 4 times a week and do calisthenics on the other 3 days of the week. I was in the army and I know a few things about carrying around heavy stuff. If you put 90 lbs of gear on me, it would definitely slow me down and affect my "agility."

I'd consider dropping the +30 lbs altogether. I think STRx20 is plenty. Especially if you want armor to have an impact on Agility (I know I do in my games).

Just a thought. Thanks.

 

[Morrus]

That has to include clothes, armor, weapons, etc. - it's not a backpack with 90lbs of gear in it. After getting dressed and picking up your sword, your carrying capacity is a heck of a lot lower!

 

[docdoom77]

That has to include clothes, armor, weapons, etc. - it's not a backpack with 90lbs of gear in it. After getting dressed and picking up your sword, your carrying capacity is a heck of a lot lower!

Well, let me put it this way. A strength 3 character with:

Clothing 4 lbs
Chainmail 50 lbs
Small Shield 6 lbs
Backpack 2 lbs

Has used only 62 lbs of his first 90. He can still stuff 48 lbs of gear in his backpack (the first 20 being free, due to the backpack) and be completely unencumbered.

That seriously stretches my suspension of disbelief and makes armor a "must-have" item, because of a lack of drawbacks.

Of course it's your game and I have no way of seeing things from your eyes, but for me, if things stay as they are, I've just found my first house-rule.

Thanks for your replies. It's great to hear from a games creator.

 

[Khaalis]

I'd have to agree that the carry capacity seems high. Especially when you add in the Carrying skill, which in comparison basically equates to a "STR +1" bonus only for carrying capacity.

As noted, STR 3 = CarryCap. 90 lb No Penalty / 91-180 lb. AGI -1 / 181-270 lb. AGI -2

STR	Unencumbered	AGI -1	AGI -2
1	1-50	51-100	101-150
2	1-70	71-140	141-210
3	1-90	91-180	181-270
4	1-110	111-220	221-330

That is really steep.

Might I suggest an alternate system here?

If 3 is the "average human" that should be a "Light Load" or 'No Encumbrance' weight (Carrying Capacity multiplier) of around 45 lbs.

[Side Note: There seems some confusion over what is "Average". It used to be 2. Now Humans start at a Base of 3 which indicates average, but the table on p13 indicates 4 is Average.]

Assuming 3 is the correct average... Under the current system that would mean that at 46-90 = AG -1 (should be moderate load) / 91-180 = AGI -2 (should be heavy load). Those weights seem more realistic but I think the encumbrance penalty isn't enough. I would suggest the penalty being something like the following rather than an AGI -1 per CC increment.


Uncumbrance
* Light Load: Up to your Carrying Capacity. No Penalty.
* Heavy Load: Up to Carrying Capacity x3. Penalty = -2 to Physical Defense, -1 dice to all AGI checks, Speed x1/2 (round up).
* Overloaded: Over Carrying Capacity x3. Penalty = -4 to Physical Defense, -2 dice to all AGI and STR checks, Cannot move.

Carrying Capacity base multiplier = (STR*15)
* STR 1 = 1-15 / 16-45 / 46+
* STR 2 = 1-30 / 31-90 / 91+
* STR 3 = 1-45 / 46-135 / 136+
* STR 4 = 1-60 / 61-180 / 181+
* STR 5 = 1-75 / 76-225 / 226+
* STR 6 = 1-90 / 91-270 / 271+
* STR 7 = 1-105 / 106-315 / 316+
* STR 8 = 1-120 / 121-360 / 361+
* STR 9 = 1-135 / 136-405 / 406+
* STR 10 = 1-150 / 151-450 / 451+


If this is too linear, you could always add in a modifier by that makes a high Endurance more important. "Your Endurance gives a higher tolerance for carrying around heavy loads."

Carrying Capacity Bonus: Add (END/3 [round down])*15 lb.
Thus...
END 1-2 = +0 lb.
END 3-5 = +15 lb.
END 6-8 = +30 lb.
END 9-11 = +45 lb.
etc.

This would give higher stats an even more "heroic" feel.


Carrying Capacity Modified by Size: This makes it a bit more realistic. An "average STR" halfling still shouldn't be able to carry as much as an "average STR" human.

* Decrease STR by -1 for each size category smaller than Medium (minimum 1).
* Increase STR by 4 for each size category larger than Medium.

Thus: (assuming No END bonus)
* A small halfling with STR 3 would have a carrying capacity as a STR 2 (1-30 / 31-90 / 91+) but still have 3 dice for Attribute checks, damage, etc.
* A medium human with STR 3 would have a carrying capacity as a STR 3 (1-45 / 46-135 / 136+) and have 3 dice for Attribute checks, damage, etc.
* A large ogre with STR 3 would have a carrying capacity as a STR 7 (1-105 / 106-315 / 316+) but still have 3 dice for Attribute checks, damage, etc.



Carrying Skill: I would then alter this from a flat 20lb. increase to instead increase the STR score for calculating Carrying Capacity (again by size). This represents someone who is basically a trained lifter.
* Carrying x1 = Hay Baler, Warehouse Worker, Dockworker, Miner
* Carry x2 = Power Lifter, Longshoreman, Heavy Laborer

"Carrying: This skill adds the following modifier to STR based on size for calculating Carrying Capacity only. You must be at least Small to take this skill."

SIZE	STR Bonus
Tiny	n/a
Small	+1
Medium	+2
Large	+3
Huge	+4

Thus: (assuming No END bonus)
* A small halfling with STR 3 & Carrying x1 skill would have a net carrying capacity as a STR 3 (1-45 / 46-135 / 136+).
* A medium human with STR 3 & Carrying x1 skill would have a carrying capacity as a STR 5 (1-75 / 76-225 / 226+).
* A large ogre with STR 3 & Carrying x1 skill would have a carrying capacity as a STR 10 (1-150 / 151-450 / 451+).


To me at least, these numbers look a lot more realistic and while crunchy, you did say you didn't mind crunch.

Thoughts?

 

[Morrus]

Long post, and I'm on my phone, but average is 4. 3 is starting, not average; different things. Which I suppose makes those values in higher.

 

[docdoom77]

Long post, and I'm on my phone, but average is 4. 3 is starting, not average; different things. Which I suppose makes those values in higher.

I guess I assumed a 3 is average too. Maybe from an older draft? Anyway. That makes the average unencumbered person able to carry up to 110 lbs. I have to say, it's just too much. I'd suggest (10 x Strength) + 10. This gives the average guy 50 lbs of gear (not to mention 20 free in the backpack). That is plenty. You might even give a size penalty/bonus.

That's my take on it anyway.

Edit: Actually I think the Str x 15 suggested above is even better!

 

[docdoom77]

Also, you could use Str X 15 as a baseline for "realistic" level games. Then add options for more cinematic styles. Like STR x15 +20 for cinematic and Str x15 + 30 for over-the-top style games.

 

[Morrus]

Also, you could use Str X 15 as a baseline for "realistic" level games. Then add options for more cinematic styles. Like STR x15 +20 for cinematic and Str x15 + 30 for over-the-top style games.

You'd have characters able to carry only 15 or 30 lbs - not even able to wear armour. Crippling PCs never flies well!

 

[docdoom77]

You'd have characters able to carry only 15 or 30 lbs - not even able to wear armour. Crippling PCs never flies well!

Considering an average Str of 4, I would say someone with half or 1/4 the strength of an average dude, shouldn't be able to wear armor without a penalty. The thing is that we're looking at the completely unencumbered numbers. There's no reason you can't exceed that and accept the agility penalty. If some frail wizard with a Str of 2 decides to wear chainmail, he SHOULD be penalized.

Again, your game, you have to do what works for you, but Str x 15 brings us to something that doesn't shatter my suspension of disbelief AND makes armor a choice. Do I take the hit on agility for some better protection or not?

Choices are GOOD!

 

[Khaalis]

You'd have characters able to carry only 15 or 30 lbs - not even able to wear armour. Crippling PCs never flies well!

I think, when you get the chance, you need to really look at the numbers I posted.

Also, IMHO if you have a Human with STR 1 or 2, you CHOSE to be "Crippled" as you put it. However, I don't think you're looking at it clearly. Seriously. If 3 is Baseline and 4 is Average, you've Chosen to to be the 90 lb. weakling or the decrepit old man, etc.

That aside, technically a STR 2 character at (STR*15) could still have the following without being encumbered:
* Leather Armor (15 lb)
* Longsword (5 lb)
* Small Shield (6 lb)
* Backpack (2 lb)
* 22 lb of gear

OR
* Studded Leather Armor (20 lb)
* Longbow (4 lb)
* Shortsword (2 lb)
* Buckler (1 lb.)
* Backpack (2 lb)
* 21 lb of gear

That's a fairly decent load for a guy that has HALF the STR of the "Average" guy.


However, if you want to look at it that even STR*15 is too low, then I think you should just look at removing granular weight based encumbrance all together since by the RAW if the "Weak" guy with STR 3 can carry around 110 lb of gear unencumbered, its pointless to even track for anything short of asking if you can lift a Horse or if you want every Character to be walking around in Plate Armor and armed to the teeth. JMHO.