Cartography - Why the focus on Renaissance?

[Rob Kuntz]

Iso is OK, but there's overall use for games and for planning, so I have always preferred overview, then step back and let the illustrator take over detailing. Here's Giambattista Nolli’s 1748 map of Rome considered to be the most accurate until that time:

 

[Rob Kuntz]

An interesting site for Medieval British Historic towns and how they have had to interpolate from what is to arrive at what was due to lack of consistent record, maps, etc.

Welcome to the Historic Towns Trust and the British Historic Towns Atlas | Historic Towns Atlas

www.historictownsatlas.org.uk

 

[Rob Kuntz]

An since we are interpolating new medieval villages, towns and cities into existence, we have reconstructions (as in the above link) and outright descriptions as in:

Life in a Medieval City (Medieval Life): Gies, Frances, Gies, Joseph: 9780062415189: Amazon.com: Books

Life in a Medieval City (Medieval Life) [Gies, Frances, Gies, Joseph] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Life in a Medieval City (Medieval Life)

www.amazon.com

This book was always a good guide for us in LG, that and the Encyclopædia Britannica Eleventh Edition.

 

[Hussar]

I'm not sure if my point is getting across.

For example, if you look at most fantasy cartography, you'll see buildings with slate roofs. Virtually no thatched roofs (just as a single example). Most fantasy city maps will show sewer grates, something that's wildly out of place. And, most urban maps will have no locations for housing animals. Just as a few examples of things you would expect to see (or not see) in a pre-Renaissance town or city.

 

[Rob Kuntz]

I'm not sure if my point is getting across.

For example, if you look at most fantasy cartography, you'll see buildings with slate roofs. Virtually no thatched roofs (just as a single example). Most fantasy city maps will show sewer grates, something that's wildly out of place. And, most urban maps will have no locations for housing animals. Just as a few examples of things you would expect to see (or not see) in a pre-Renaissance town or city.

Righto. But there are no concrete examples except as reconstructed. So the guides to reconstruct are at our disposal, so if one sees a plethora of post-Medieval maps, iso or other, then I'd say that game cartographers are taking the easy/expedient route, eh? Won't be the first time...

 

[Umbran]

I don't mean real world maps. I get that. My question is, why are fantasy maps locked into Renaissance?

I can think of two basic reasons:

1) Most fantasy games are probably set in something that people think looks vaguely like the late Middle Ages or early Renaissance - and the maps are made with that in mind.

2) Most folks are more informed about Renaissance architecture, so they are more able to produce art depicting it.

I mean, look at the ships on the map I posted. Those ships are a couple of centuries more advanced than what you'd find in most D&D campaigns.

When you ask a player what they think the ships look like, that's probably what they'd describe, though, and anachronism be damned.

 

[Son of the Serpent]

You don't need Renaissance for highly populated towns. Rome had a million people. Paris around 1200 had 110 000 people. D&D sets major cities at 25000, so, it wouldn't need to be much more advanced than, say, 1200 CE.

But, yeah, I'm going to blame Tolkien. It's always his fault.

I get most of what you are saying. Well...except for the rome part. (The dense part of that city was small and there was also a lot of people living in the surrounding lands which were still considered "the city" technically which throws off the accuracy of most people's perception of the city's density over all.) But then you lose me with tge tolkein comment. Its out of left field.

 

[Undrave]

I'm not sure if my point is getting across.

For example, if you look at most fantasy cartography, you'll see buildings with slate roofs. Virtually no thatched roofs (just as a single example). Most fantasy city maps will show sewer grates, something that's wildly out of place. And, most urban maps will have no locations for housing animals. Just as a few examples of things you would expect to see (or not see) in a pre-Renaissance town or city.

Didn't the Romans have sewers? I don't think sewer grates are that big of a stretch. It would just be related to a culture that favours cleanliness.

 

[Celebrim]

Those ships are a couple of centuries more advanced than what you'd find in most D&D campaigns.

In my experience with nautical campaigns and rule sets, the vast majority of campaigns seem to assume technology from the 17th or even 18th century is available.

I would guess that the number of campaigns restricted to longships and cogs is significantly less than the number restricted to carracks and caravals, and which is in turn less than the number with galleons, and which is in turn probably not that different or even less than the number that assumes ships similar to what they see in 'Pirates of the Caribbean' or other pirate moves where the sailing technology is from the age of criminal piracy - late 17th and early 18th century.

For example, I would suspect almost every nautical game assumes the existence of a 'crow's nest', despite the very late date of the crow's nest being invented and the fact it would or should never appear in a 'medieval' themed game.

 

[Umbran]

Just as a few examples of things you would expect to see (or not see) in a pre-Renaissance town or city.

As yourself the following - how many people actually care about historical accuracy in their game?

The answer is... nearly none. There will be sewers because they have sewers in Diablo, and sewers are cool places to explore and have encounters, even though nobody would ever go into one willingly.