Cascading effects

[Particle_Man]

One example of bogging things down in combat - cascading effects:

I get hit in combat with a ray. I fail my save and am fatigued. Fatigue means I can't run or charge and have -2 on str and dex. -2 on dex means -1 on reflex saves, -1 to hit with missle weapons, and -1 to AC (exception: If I am wearing armor that already has a maximum dex bonus to AC that is lower than my current dex bonus, AC is not lowered), and -1 to dex based skills (some of which, like tumbling, get used in combat). -2 on str means -1 to hit with meelee weapons and -1 damage with meelee and thrown weapons and mighty composite bows, and -1 to strength based skills (some of which, like jump, may be used in combat). It also affects my encumbrance load. If my new encumbrance load switched me from the light to the medium category, then my movement rate is affected (unless I am a dwarf), as is my maximum dex bonus (with the caveat above to maximum dex bonus from armor, as I simply take the lower maximum dex bonus to AC limit of the medium load condition or armor condition), and encumbrance skill check penalty (which affects certain skills (like tumble and jump (the latter of which is also affected by my lowered movement rate)) - again, this does not stack with the armor check penalty, I simply use the higher penalty).

Now any one calculation of the above is simple math. But all of them together, based on a single effect (failing a saving throw vs. a ray), seems like a bit much. Assuming I don't have a laptop computer at the gaming table, is there a quicker way to keep track of things?

 

[Shadowslayer]

To greatly simplify things, we sometimes change the effects to the simpler. For example, spider poison normally does x amount of primary and then secondary damage to str and con (it may be something else....i don't have my books in front of me) Heck with that. If you succumb to the poison, its minus 2 to hit for you until you get restored. Or you lose d6 hit points permanently (till restored) etc.

My group hates fluctuating ability scores. Its the one thing I really hope they'll change if 4e comes about.

EDIT-I realize now that's not exactly what you asked. I don't know how to make it simpler in its current form, except for possibly a greatly revamped character sheet that somehow has a sliding scale for each ability.

 

[Shadowslayer]

heh...musta been something I said.

 

[The_Gneech]

Well, I suspect it's just that nobody can think of anything useful to say.

Um.

Yeah, math sucks.

I use notecards listing the effects of any given condition, put out on the table when the condition comes up. So if somebody is blinded, they get a blinded card on the table, for instance.

A lot of the more "remote" effects of cascading effects, such as feats being unusable, are not worth the trouble of looking up, IMO. Having your Dex sucked out is its own punishment -- not being able to use Combat Expertise because of it, is just piling on.

-The Gneech

 

[I'm A Banana]

One of my philosophies of design in FFZ is to avoid exactly those kinds of effects.

A big offender is ability damage or increase. Ability scores affect a lot. In FFZ, altering an ability score is about as rare as losing a level to level drain in that is really doesn't happen much, and when it does, you should be terrified and it's a big effect.

Part of how I deal with it is by applying effects directly to the bonuses, rather than ability scores. -2 Str becomes -1 Attack and -1 Damage. -2 Con becomes -1/level hp. -2 Wisdom becomes -1 Resistance, and similar things. Equipment is very abstracted, so encumbrance doesn't come into play at all.

Just change things that do ability score damage imposing a penalty on certain things. It doesn't even need to be EVERYTHING that the original could do. It's enough to, say, have a Str-damaging poison just put a penalty on damage rolls. That way, you can also introduce more varied venoms -- some penalize your damage, some penalize your attacks, some penalize both....

It's going to have some reprocussions, but I wouldn't worry too much about them. Just not worrying about ability score damage will make things scads simpler.

 

[Hussar]

While it is true that all those things happen. However, to most characters, many of those things don't matter. If you never tumble, then penalties to tumble don't matter. If you are in melee, then the ranged effects don't matter. That sort of thing. It is rather rare that all those calculations have to be done at once. You generally would only need to worry about one or possibly two effects at any given time. That means that the calculations become much simpler. Having to only adjust a single die roll per round, or perhaps two die rolls per combat round, means that you don't really lose much time to recalculations.

Now, shapechanging was a different issue. Mostly because the effects changed so many things that all came up in each round. I think this is why polymorph got changed.

A good idea is to have effects written out ahead of time and just hand the card to the affected player as needed.

 

[ThirdWizard]

When you write all that down it sounds like a lot, but in play I've never seen it as an issue. Write -2 Str/Dex in your notes. Whenever you do something, take it into consideration before doing it. Don't try to calculate it all when you're affected.

So, a front line fighter would note -1 att/dmg and -1 AC and move on. If the DM calls for a save, he'll glance over and add in that -1 Reflex save. The Ranger has -1 att/dmg and -1 AC just like the front line fighter, for different reasons, but the outcome is the same. Skills are so rarely used that it almost never comes up, just like encumberance.