Cash for Encounter Levels

[Kelleris]

How much does money affect the EL of an NPC? If I wanted to make a 5th-level NPC sorcerer with the gold of an 8th- or 9th-level NPC, how much would that increase the character's CR for calculating XP rewards? I'm having a hard time figuring out how much it costs to "buy" a level.

 

[dcollins]

I'll just start things off by noting that that's totally not covered in any existing rules (maybe you already knew that). That makes this a pretty wide-open, subjective discussion.

 

[Kelleris]

Yeah, but there are some really roundabout ways of approaching it. The problem is that they don't really give you the same answers. For instance, there's an oft-cited figure from the Arms and Equipment Guide of 10,000 for a feat, meaning that a level of fighter is worth something like 40-50k gold.

Or you could use the rule that a monster with elite stats is +1 CR, and convert that to items, giving a figure of something like 36k gold for a level. But maybe that should be an inherent bonuses, which would give you a whopping ~250k for a level. I could go on, but I suffer with you.

I agree, it's very confusing. I was more hoping that someone had figured something out, and would be willing to share the results of their playtesting in a shower of munificence.

Failing that, I'd settle for some educated guesses we could hash out.

 

[dcollins]

I guess there's also the spellcasting and magic item creation that asserts 1 XP = 5 gp (or 10-20 gp in the Variant: Power Components). That would be arguing that +1 CR is worth about +5 levels in NPC gear value (+/-2) by my figuring.

 

[Bryin]

Well that would depend, if you want to just have money instead of ex or both (1-99/1-99). But a 5th level npc with the money of a 8-9th level npc, depends on what he carries with him I think.

 

[irdeggman]

Try the NPC tables from the DMG (starting on pg 113). They list gear (including money) for NPCs with varying class levels.

This is about as good as you are going to get, IMO.

CR assumes that a character, etc. has the average amount of equipment (including magic items) available to a PC of that level.

 

[Kelleris]

I'm familiar with the NPC equipment charts, irdeggman, I'm just wondering how much harder it makes the fight if you give an 8th level NPC's equipment to a 5th level character. Say, for instance, a sorcerer from a noble family who hides his inadequate grasp of the Art by toting around the fruits of his family's finances, or an assassin given just the right item to slay the NPCs when he would otherwise not be able to. And, of course, there's always the opposite direction, as well - what's the CR of a doughty knight who's lost his magical armor and sword, or of a recently-robbed dragon?

Using the 5 gp = 1 XP rule is good, but it gives you strange results over the 20 levels because gp and XP increase at wildly different rates, one more-or-less linear and the other more-or-less geometric. I was considering doing the full chart relating XP to gold and trying to smooth out the curve for an average ratio, something like +3 "gear levels" = +1 overall CR. That would be a lot of work, though, and I was hoping I had missed an obvious shortcut or that someone else had already played around with this idea.

I've seen infrequent examples of this in a few books, but those all seemed to be a matter of just eyeballing it. Which I can do, but the number-crunching side of my DM's soul doesn't want me to do that.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

There are no guidelines because, with standard gear, an NPC isn't worth his CR anyway. (Eg a 10th-level fighter NPC is not CR 10, even if the rules say she is.)

But giving them more gear means you're giving your players more gear, too.

 

[Kelleris]

Yeah, but that's not necessarily a bad thing, as long as other things are poorer as a result. When I DM, I usually have enough large, poor monsters or small, poor mooks to accept a wealthy character here and there. In fact, I already tend to give major NPCs as much gear as a PC of their level, though I try to make enough of it useless to the PCs that they don't get too rich too fast.

 

[irdeggman]

Yes, money per enclunter is a tough cookie to crack.

In our games the DM has been using the optional training rules from the DMG. Hence our characters need money in order to advance in levels. As our DM discovered, most random wilderness encounters (most of our encounters are wilderness based) yield squat for treasure so we didn't have the necessary funds to level up. This required some 'adjustments' by the DM. Important NPCs somehow found ways to finance our training in exchange for future favors, etc.

IMO this is a poor way to run things. When the DM has to apply adjustments on an almost continous basis the system being used is faulty. I was against using the training rules in the first place. I wasn't against the time involved, only the money because not all classes have the same costs involved.


As far as what would happen if a 5th level NPC got the equipment of an 8th level one - I don't think it really alters anything much.

Quality of equipment and amount is not an issue (especially after 5th level - at 1st-3rd it is more significant, masterwork weapons add a +1 to attacks and this can alter things a lot at low levels). A character can only use a limited amount of equipment at any one time, typicaly 2 melee weapons and 1 ranged weapon is what a character relies on most of the time.

The part to watch out for is the magic items. Those can substantially alter things.

Scrolls won't be a factor, but wands and wondrous items could very well be. In order to use a wand the spell has to be on the character's spell list. So a 5th level wizard could use a wand with a 4th level wizard spell. I guess wands aren't really that much of a factor since they are limited to 4th level spells and a 5th level character could cast 3rd level ones. A 1st level wizard with a wand of fireballs on the other hand. . . .

No help here I'm afraid it will be a DM swag on trying to fit an appropriate EL to the NPCs using these types of items. IMO I'd add +1 to the CR per every 2 levels above the NPC character level for magic items that he can use. But this is just a guess out of backsides since it is all situational.